Squirrel comes back in spades in Helix 2.81 (Tweed Nrm)? LOL

Discussion in 'Digital & Modeling Gear' started by Mark Al, Sep 5, 2019.

  1. phil_m

    phil_m Supporting Member

    Messages:
    10,028
    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Location:
    East of the Sun, West of the Moon
    This is perhaps a little irrelevant, but it sounds like there's actual clipping somewhere in the signal chain in the second video. It's kind of all over the place in it.
     
    ChrisVereb likes this.
  2. Watt McCo

    Watt McCo Member

    Messages:
    8,146
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2016
    I spent a long time not knowing what people were talking about when they said "squirrels" but being really REALLY annoyed by certain artifacts I heard in both Atomic and Helix models. Artifacts that seemed unnatural because of the same reasons mbenigni outlined above. I eventually heard a clip of squirrels and was like "oh, yeah, I know exactly what they're complaining about.". I.e ., I didn't go looking for squirrels but found and was annoyed by them.
     
  3. tanee

    tanee Member

    Messages:
    853
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2012
    I have this issue too but always assumed it was my houses poor grounding.
     
  4. Billy_B

    Billy_B Silver Supporting Member

    Messages:
    3,632
    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2018
    Phil, let it go. You made a silly comment and got called on it. Now you're grasping at straws trying to defend the in-defensible.
     
    hippietim likes this.
  5. phil_m

    phil_m Supporting Member

    Messages:
    10,028
    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Location:
    East of the Sun, West of the Moon
    It's alright... I'm a big boy. I can watch out for myself. Thanks for you concern, though.
     
    Imerkat and cabojoe like this.
  6. Brandon7s

    Brandon7s Member

    Messages:
    923
    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2017
    Yep, the squirrels are fairly obvious in this one. Listening to the softest notes and the disembodied distortion that lays over top of them for no apparent reason. I expect to hear that kind of distortion when the amp is pushed somewhat but not literally all of the time regardless of drive.

    This is just a long rephrasing of "it's all in your head", not an improvement over prior comments.
     
    mvsr990, pipedwho, mbenigni and 2 others like this.
  7. phil_m

    phil_m Supporting Member

    Messages:
    10,028
    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Location:
    East of the Sun, West of the Moon
    Every sound we hear is "all in our head" if that helps you to understand where I'm coming from. No one else can hear a sound exactly as you hear it.
     
    the tourist and LordByron like this.
  8. KenG

    KenG Member

    Messages:
    1,231
    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2016
    Location:
    Alberta Canada
    I heard some "hair" on the notes that sounds to my ears like natural distortion. I can hear that on several of the Tweed type Helix models and I suspect its there on many real tweed amps but tamed/filtered out by the transformer/speaker or possibly the aged components.
    Be interesting to see the track on both the Helix and a representative Tweed amp through a spectrum analyzer to see the harmonic content present.
     
  9. JiveTurkey

    JiveTurkey Trumpets and Tants Silver Supporting Member

    Messages:
    14,216
    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    I get My Own Brand of Squirrels™ on the high gain clips I do using Native all the time. I don't hear it so much in a full mix, but isolated I hear it as notes decay and over top of things (disembodied distortion is a great term for it, @Brandon7s ). I would never minimalize or trivialize it for others; but I just make it work as Native is great for demoing tracks.
     
  10. primemover12

    primemover12 Member

    Messages:
    80
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2013
    I hear what seem to be uncharacteristically square, distorted sounds in the decays at a few points.

    I don’t use Helix cleans typically, but I can say that basically the same issue is why I dislike the PV Panama despite owning a 5150 and using the 6505 model in ReValver constantly.

    If a visual metaphor helps, imagine listening as you’re playing, and the modeler is producing all the notes it should, nice dynamic highs and lows but then, in between them, it occasionally spits out little squares of noise. On a clean amp they might sound like squirrels. On the PV Panama, they sound like a blown speaker in a cheap car stereo.

    Fortunately, I have other plugins for the 6505, and the Placater doesn’t seem to do it in Native.
     
    pipedwho, mbenigni, mikah912 and 2 others like this.
  11. MojoRisin

    MojoRisin Member

    Messages:
    780
    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2019
    Excellent playing BTW, I really like this piece.

    I feel like the whole track is a little scratchy, like the gain was turned up just a tad too high and it's clipping too much for this type of piece. I know that's more of a personal taste thing, but I just feel like this isn't the right amp tone for this song.
     
  12. sixeight

    sixeight Member

    Messages:
    330
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2016
    I do hear the squirrels as well. Some amps like the Soup Pro and the Stone Age have so much of it, that I can not enjoy those models. Really tried hard to dial it out but can't seem to get it right.

    It would be great if there was some way to dial it out. We do need that squirrel knob in the amp section.

    Anyway there are plenty of other patches were I have managed to tame the squirrels...
     
    mbenigni likes this.
  13. laurabaileysirishcre

    laurabaileysirishcre Supporting Member

    Messages:
    195
    Joined:
    May 25, 2017
    Do you care to share your patch?

    I hear what you are hearing, I am curious if there is a way to dial it out.
     
  14. mikah912

    mikah912 Member

    Messages:
    5,919
    Joined:
    May 22, 2012
    Best description I've seen of it yet.

    Also - the best attitude in dealing with people struggling with it.
     
    LordByron and JiveTurkey like this.
  15. Brandon7s

    Brandon7s Member

    Messages:
    923
    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2017
    Like @laurabaileysirishcre, I would be very interested in getting ahold of your preset, or even your amp settings. Or even what amp you're actually using, is it the Fullerton Nrm model, or the Grammatico Nrm? Or are you using the Tweed Blues Nrm, though that's not new in 2.8.

    I want to mess around with settings on the amp and also try a bunch of various IR cabs to see if there's anything that can significantly reduce the Attack of the Squirrels.
     
    Toby Krebs likes this.
  16. Toby Krebs

    Toby Krebs Member

    Messages:
    1,477
    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2012
    Lol! TGP players who use fuzz boxes and modeling fuzz pedals arguing about squirrels.Again listen to Band Of Gypsies.The whole thing has Squirrels whether he is playing clean or not. If you try to simulate
    a cranked amp in the virtual world it does the same thing.Its either weak and anemic or “squirrels “.

    All 9 of my tube amps will do the same thing.My little Helix Stomp sounds/feels great and is a lot of fun.
    I would not however make a record with it.Not because of squirrels but because I have never played a video game!
     
    LordByron, JerEvil and soulfixinman like this.
  17. JiveTurkey

    JiveTurkey Trumpets and Tants Silver Supporting Member

    Messages:
    14,216
    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Your new avatar looks classy, Toby!
     
  18. phil_m

    phil_m Supporting Member

    Messages:
    10,028
    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Location:
    East of the Sun, West of the Moon
    :huh
     
  19. buckd

    buckd I like big picks and I can not lie... Silver Supporting Member

    Messages:
    153
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2002
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    I hear what you all are talking about. I avoid this by doing a high cut in the cab block. Around 5-5.5k.

    I also think the reverb "amplifies" the squirrels a bit. You may want to roll back some highs in the reverb as well.
     
  20. ChrisVereb

    ChrisVereb Member

    Messages:
    1,753
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2014
    Yeah, I didn't get that part either @Toby Krebs, but get the rest of your post. We idolize the foibles of old gear as charm/mojo, but can also find it annoying when actually hearing it. It's weird.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice