Squirrel comes back in spades in Helix 2.81 (Tweed Nrm)? LOL

Discussion in 'Digital & Modeling Gear' started by Mark Al, Sep 5, 2019.

  1. dmock66

    dmock66 Member

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    1) awesome playing on a cool composition!

    2) I heard the squirrels

    Just curious (and sorry if this was discussed and I missed it) - have you turned off everything but the amp/cab to determine if it's for sure out of the modeling verses in the delay/reverb?
     
  2. Brandon7s

    Brandon7s Member

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    I played with the preset he shared and it's definitely the amp model - I turned off everything else in the patch.

    So far the single best way I've found of subduing the squirrels is through exploring IRs to find the ones that have the tone you want but have the frequencies that this specific disembodied distortion noise recessed or hidden by the rest of the cabs characteristics. It never goes away completely, not even close, but it is made far more tolerable with careful IR choices. You can kind of do the same thing on the stock cabs by using the R121 or 4038 ribbon mics and putting them fairly close, less than 2 inches, but then you have to deal with an unpleasing, boomy low end. Could probably dial that out with more judicious use of low cuts but I prefer IRs in general so that's what I go with.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2019
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  3. Billy_B

    Billy_B Silver Supporting Member

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    Only $19.95
    Sizes S, M, L, XL, XXL
    PayPal accepted.
    [​IMG]
     
  4. straightblues

    straightblues Member

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    I just got the HX Effects. I am an old school tube snob. I am hearing what you guys describe in some of the drives for sure. But there are several drives that sound great and don't seem to have it. Helix has given you so many choices, just find the ones that work for you and forget the rest. I think Helix kind of screwed themselves by offering so much. Is it really realistic for any piece of gear to be able to reproduce any amp out there?
     
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  5. dmock66

    dmock66 Member

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    That's good to know. I was wondering if it might have come from the Reverb decay or something else like that - but if it's there with the amp model regardless - then there you have it.

    Follow up question (again forgive me if this was previously asked) - is it a certain frequency? I read one post from someone stating they have been diagnosed with some hearing loss - but if an IR can reduce this - can it be surgically removed with a specific frequency eliminated?
     
  6. fr8_trane

    fr8_trane Supporting Member

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    I hear it in this clip and on some of the HX amps but definitely not all. The Grammatico is maybe the worst offender: Static-y snap, crackle, pop on the decay when you let chords ring which makes that amp useless IMO. The fullerton is actually smoother.

    Some real amps actually do this but IMO it is NEVER a desirable artifact and if there is a way to remove it in the digital realm then it should be an option. I believe it may be crossover distortion and there might be a way to minimize it using the power amp settings
     
  7. phil_m

    phil_m Supporting Member

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    It seems that sometimes you can get some high end hash with drive effects simply because you have too much preamp gain altogether. I don't think this sort of thing is just a digital phenomenon. Personally I've struggled with a lot of drive pedals and Fender amps if the amp is at a low volume because the distortion sound grainy and, to use the term being used here, you get some paper-tearing sort of artifacts. Now I'm not saying this is all the same thing, but I just think that when you get into sounds that saturated at low power levels and/or volumes, you can start hearing things that sound off. Maybe that's why I'm not getting that worked up about it. It seems dealing with unwanted artifacts is part and parcel with playing guitar.
     
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  8. -Empire

    -Empire Supporting Member

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    Thanks, yep it's on my website (link in my sig) towards the bottom of the Helix Presets page. Thanks!
     
  9. Brandon7s

    Brandon7s Member

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    Great question, I've been trying to figure this out myself but to me it sure sounds like all of the squirrels inhabit the same narrow frequency range, and changing the note I'm playing doesn't seem to make it move around, at least within the context of using the same amp model.

    I'll have to make a recording and use some surgical EQ to see if I can cut out everything but the squirrels to see where they live.
     
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  10. Billy_B

    Billy_B Silver Supporting Member

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    General consensus from players of all digital platforms is that it is though. Consider yourself lucky that you've been able
    to either not hear it or you can ignore/block it out.
     
  11. dmock66

    dmock66 Member

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    You may well win "Digital Interneter Of The Year" if you can identify the dreaded frequency! :)
     
  12. Brandon7s

    Brandon7s Member

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    I've definitely heard this exact same Squirrel distortion on tube amps, it's absolutely not just a digital phenomenon. That said, in my experience the problem is that the digital amp models often exhibit this problem whereas the real world tube amp doesn't, or at least not to nearly the same extent.
     
  13. fr8_trane

    fr8_trane Supporting Member

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    I have absolutely heard it from real amps. Its not desirable in the analog realm either.

    I'm pretty sure it's crossover distortion which happens in all A/B amps to varying degrees. I feel that on some HX amps it is extremely exaggerated though.

    According to Mr. Aiken you can mitigate crossover distortion with the bias control (see the conclusions at the bottom of the page)
    https://www.aikenamps.com/index.php/what-is-crossover-distortion
    https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/131424519-amplifier-crossover-distortion
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2019
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  14. Rod

    Rod Tone is Paramount Supporting Member

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    Nice tune and playing... sounds like a Helix thing... my friend has one and that’s what I hear with his......can you reduce presence to get rid of it?
     
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  15. phil_m

    phil_m Supporting Member

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    What I'm saying is there are a lot of ways in which you can encounter undesirable artifacts with a guitar, pedalboard, and tube amp rig, and even more so when you throw close micing into the equation. So it could just be that people are focusing on this one aspect of unwanted noise, meanwhile they're ignoring all the other types of issues that are potential problems in other sorts of setups.

    I was actually going to try to record some comparison tracks with my Deluxe Reverb last night using a ribbon mic, and I ended up not doing it because I was getting too much background noise through the mic. Granted, my space isn't perfectly treated, and I can make things better... But there's always things to overcome. I think we just focus on certain things with modeling solutions because we don't have the other issues to worry about. I guess we all just have to decide how much it all matters.
     
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  16. Billy_B

    Billy_B Silver Supporting Member

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    Of course. But that's not the discussion we're having. We're talking specifically about the little critters that many of us attribute to digital amplifiers having trouble trying to perfectly recreate one of many artifacts associated with analog amplifiers.
    Enough players have now articulated it in a way that clearly associates it with digital. It is highly safe to assume we're talking about players who have been around the block enough times to know what they are talking about.
     
  17. RandoMan

    RandoMan Member

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    FWIW, I believe these squirrels are related to the Master level on these amps, something that was mentioned in the classic old thread:
    https://www.thegearpage.net/board/i...-im-hearing-here.1826645/page-4#post-24118950
    I tried the OP's patch, heard the squirrels, then reduced the Master down from 10 to 5 and below and the squirrels (that I hear) clean up a lot. Still there, but much cleaner and more relevant to what is being played.

    Remember that setting the Master at 10 (as in this patch) is like setting your real amp at 10. I think we digital guys either overlook the Master setting or tend to use it as an overall level control when that should actually be the Ch Vol setting.
     
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  18. Digital Igloo

    Digital Igloo Member

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    A much bigger mystery than any squirrels: Who still uses "LOL"? Is OP:
    1. A mom with a "Live Laugh Love" wall decoration?
    2. A grandparent attempting to connect with their grandkids?
    3. A time-traveling 16-year-old girl from 2007?
     
  19. RandoMan

    RandoMan Member

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  20. phil_m

    phil_m Supporting Member

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    I have no idea how many people have issues with it. It comes up here occasionally. It comes up in the huge Helix Facebook group with 24k+ members very rarely. I actually think there's been very little public outcry over it, for the most part. The same dozen people talking about something doesn't automatically make something an urgent need for a company.
     

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