Stacking dirt with a Bogner Red

Discussion in 'Effects, Pedals, Strings & Things' started by slicepaperdavid, Apr 11, 2015.

  1. slicepaperdavid

    slicepaperdavid Member

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    To get more tonal variation does it make sense to stack dirt before or after a Bogner Red? I know it works best in front of a clean amp so I'm confused with what order to set my pedals up. An Earthquaker Devices Speaker Cranker in conjunction with my Red seems like a cool idea to thicken up the sound even more for certain parts. Any experience stacking with a Red?
     
  2. teestone

    teestone Mostly Regular Member Silver Supporting Member

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    I use a Proanalog Dirt Royale w/ Cheese to goose the Red.

    I set the Red pretty low gain and compression considering the amount available....more vintage and open sounding.

    The DRwC adds some of that compression and gain back in and thickens the tone up a bunch.

    Stacking drive is something I do a lot of...makes for some really fun and interesting combos.

    The Red does just fine but if it's already set hot and you hit it with more hair, it can get kinda nuts. I found having it set low yields better results when stacking.

    Good luck and have fun...report back on the results!
     
  3. slicepaperdavid

    slicepaperdavid Member

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    Do you have your Bogner 1st on your chain or does the DRwC come after the Red on your pedalboard? Thank you for the input!
     
  4. Chris McKinley

    Chris McKinley Member

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    The Bogner Red is designed as an amp-in-a-box, in other words, it's designed to sound like an amp by itself, as opposed to, say, generic overdrives or generic distortions. In fact, some folks use them as preamps for that very reason, sometimes even running them into the Effects Return of their amp's effects loop so as to bypass their amp's preamp section altogether and just use the power tubes to amplify the final volume to the speakers.

    Since that is the case, as it would be with any amp-in-a-box pedal, it is generally going to be better to put whatever other boosting or overdriving pedals in front of the Bogner Red, since the last pedal in the chain will usually be the one to impart the most tonal imprint on the final tone. So, in perhaps simpler terms, if you want the sound of a Bogner Ecstasy Red Channel amp, only with a little extra overdrive to goose the gain, you would treat the Red pedal just like you would the amp, putting the overdrive of your choice in front of the Red.
     
  5. teestone

    teestone Mostly Regular Member Silver Supporting Member

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    The Red comes last before the amp. I have multiple other drive, modulation and filter type effects before it.

    Chris McK nailed it on the head. I have never tried it in the fx loop though. In front of the amp and last in the chain is my advice.
     
  6. Chris McKinley

    Chris McKinley Member

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    Where you would optimally put modulation or reverb effects will depend entirely on whether or not you are using your amp's preamp dirt as part of your tone engine or not. If you're just using the amp as a clean pedal platform, then modulation, delay, reverb, etc. effects will go after the Bogner Red, but before the amp. Ideally, you will want to use your modulation/reverb effects to affect the tone of a Bogner Ecstasy Red Channel amp, not vice versa.

    If you are using your amp's dirt as well as the Bogner Red, then put the modulation/reverb effects in the effects loop of the amp (assuming you have one). The principle at play in both cases is that you want to delay/reverb, etc. the tone of the amp (along with all overdrives, boosts, etc.), not the other way around.

    What I call the "tone engine" is the combined sound of all boosts, overdrives, distortions, amplifier preamp dirt, the amp's tone stack, and whatever EQing of that combined tone (such as a graphic EQ pedal). Modulation effects, delays, reverbs, etc. all belong after the tone engine in order to achieve the closest thing to a studio-style sound.

    What do I mean by that? I mean that in a typical studio situation (and therefore the tone you hear on record) starts with a dry miked amplifier with whatever amount of gain and distortion you want already dialed in. IOW, you might have a favorite OD in front of the amp's dirt to get the combined distortion sound just how you want it. The signal from the mic is then run through outboard EQing to shape the dry distorted tone. The signal from the EQ is then run into whatever modulation effects you might desire, such as stereo chorus, phaser, flanger, echo, or delay. Finally, that combined signal is run into any reverb you will want on the sound.

    Later, you might EQ the final combined sound as part of the mixdown and mastering process, but this is essentially how it works a good percentage of the time because it most closely mimics the process of real acoustics.
     
  7. bap_la_so_1

    bap_la_so_1 Member

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    i think it's better to put other ODs in front of a Bogner
    I put the MXR wylde od, sd-1 and bunch of ods from my rp500 in front of my bogner red and it reacts just like an amp: tighter, punchier and more compress
     

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