Staggered Trem Claw?

Bobo Fret

Whatchyou lookin' at?
Messages
648
For the life of me I can't remember where I saw this thing, but it's a trem claw where the individual spring claws are staggered in length getting incrementally longer from first to last. What would be the purpose of this configuration?

There's also the Van Rosa Stay Tuned Trem Stabilizing Claw, which is supposed to help with tuning. On that one, the spring retainers are staggered also, but in a different configuration. 1,3,5 are shortest and equal whereas 2 and 4 are longest and equal in length.

Anybody try either? Does it actually work?

Bonus points if you can direct me to the website (that I failed to bookmark) for the top claw described. I didn't get a chance to read up on it.
 

Whiskeyrebel

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
31,270
It would change the distribution of pre-load in the springs. The springs whose hooks are closer to the block would have less tension than the springs whose hooks are closer to the neck.

It could help balance if you ran skinny plain - heavy wound strings, but really in standard tuning the tension is reasonably even from string to string. Also you can get a bit of angle in the standard claw by the way you install and tighten the two screws.
 

shane8

Member
Messages
33,251
I'd say it's a gimmick + as has been said, you can set a standard claw to an angle

how many springs do you use?
 

buddastrat

Member
Messages
14,688
The claw angle or some kinda staggered claw thing is all smoke. Save your $. It's about setup and use. There is no magic fix, it's simply understanding the thing.

This is a regular strat with the claw straight. I can use it for shimmer, or just up pull stuff like Carl V. But I made this video to show extreme stuff and I use the bar up AND down and it stays in tune like a Floyd. The ONLY things that matters is good stringing, tuning technique along with some float to the bridge and they all do this. ANY six screw trem stays in tune well with a stock nut and stock tuners.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=764480240235398&set=vb.313337958747005&type=2&theater

The claw set at any angle or straight or whatever and get the same result, it stays in great tuning.
 

Bobo Fret

Whatchyou lookin' at?
Messages
648
Yeah, it smelled like BS, but I thought I'd ask.

budda - seen your vid (and Carl's) linked in other threads and have found both very helpful. Thanks!!!

I use three springs BTW.
 

gmann

Member
Messages
9,088
Just think, all the great music that's been done without it could've been so much better. If only...
 

mesa/kramer

Member
Messages
3,057
After trying Locking tuners, Bone nut, nut sauce, this was the only thing that made the trem on my PRS SE usable.
Maybe it varies from guitar to guitar, but made all the difference for me.
Worth a try.

 

buddastrat

Member
Messages
14,688
The Carl set up is total truth.

First, love Carl's playing. But that claw stuff is bullshi* if you buy it. Plus he only uses the bar for mostly light, up pulls. I set the claw straight and can do same amount of up pull, plus allows me to use the bar both up and down extreme Floyd like stuff. Other than angling the claw, he's simply doing a normal Fender setup. Look up the blueprint.

I'm not saying it won't work with angle to it. It'll work, but it works JUST as well straight, or angled the opposite way. That does not matter, and I show that above.

I don't claim to have any magic set up secret. I just set it up the way I got my Fenders CS strats from factory. If I have my tuning and technique right, it works and stays in tune right. So FENDER'S set up is the truth. Look at the blueprint of original strats. Leo designed it to have a lot of float, and that's ALL it is. It's Leo's/Fenders setup. Lets give credit where credit is due.

Only thing I do different is route out some wood underneath, so I can increase the down/up range of the bar, and do crazy stuff. I ain't seen anyone do that.
 

burningyen

Member
Messages
15,230
The angled claw didn't do anything for me. I've never tried the Van Rosa claw, but I can see in theory how it might work as a detente device.
 

duckbunny

Member
Messages
3,524
OK then let's have the physics !:munch

Okey Doke

Hooke's law states that the force
800618943025315f869e4e1f09471012.png
needed to extend or compress a spring by some distance
02129bb861061d1a052c592e2dc6b383.png
is proportional to that distance. That is:
097df29f4205a6b8d8bd57f61798d14d.png
where
8ce4b16b22b58894aa86c421e8759df3.png
is a constant factor characteristic of the spring, its stiffness.


Consider a simple helical spring that has one end attached to some fixed object, while the free end is being pulled by a force whose magnitude is
800618943025315f869e4e1f09471012.png
. Suppose that the spring has reached a state of equilibrium, where its length is not changing anymore. Let
02129bb861061d1a052c592e2dc6b383.png
be the amount by which the free end of the spring was displaced from its "relaxed" position (when it is not being stretched). Hooke's law states that
c2c4a7f57947a786b00bba66d08b109d.png
or, equivalently,
0b51d3fc262854c9ce1ebc8dec7b7c44.png
where
8ce4b16b22b58894aa86c421e8759df3.png
is a positive real number, characteristic of the spring. Moreover, the same formula holds when the spring is compressed, with
800618943025315f869e4e1f09471012.png
and
02129bb861061d1a052c592e2dc6b383.png
both negative in that case. According to this formula, the graph of the applied force
800618943025315f869e4e1f09471012.png
as a function of the displacement
02129bb861061d1a052c592e2dc6b383.png
will be a straight line passing through the origin, whose slope is
8ce4b16b22b58894aa86c421e8759df3.png
.


Hooke's law for a spring is often stated under the convention that
800618943025315f869e4e1f09471012.png
is the restoring (reaction) force exerted by the spring on whatever is pulling its free end. In that case the equation becomes
aa35a3ffb1793b6b6327dad80d750a31.png
since the direction of the restoring force is opposite to that of the displacement.


-Walter Lewin explains Hooke's law. From Walter Lewin (1 October 1999). Hooke's Law, Simple Harmonic Oscillator. MIT Course 8.01: Classical Mechanics, Lecture 10. (ogg) (videotape) (in English). Cambridge, MA USA: MIT OCW. Event occurs at 1:21–10:10. Retrieved 23 December 2010. "...arguably the most important equation in all of Physics."


Short version: Horse-hockey.
QED



-db
 

walterw

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
40,652
i suspect when a player gets to the level of playing that carl V lives at, we might actually have to put less stock in their gear advice!

people like that are good enough to make anything work and sound awesome, whether it's a legit idea or good piece of gear or not.

anyway yeah, the angled claw thing is bogus, it's neither here nor there.
 

flatfinger

Member
Messages
2,150
so a fulcrum that pivots on two post will not be affected by uneven spring tension on both sides?? Is it merely summed?? the strings don't pull evenly unless you buy the Zachary or new D'Addario Balanced tension sets.

It may hinge (pun intended) on how the springs open up , I thought getting them to do that at the same rate was the point , But I'm no expert...

.

.
 

Eagle1

Member
Messages
8,655
Okey Doke

Hooke's law states that the force
800618943025315f869e4e1f09471012.png
needed to extend or compress a spring by some distance
02129bb861061d1a052c592e2dc6b383.png
is proportional to that distance. That is:
097df29f4205a6b8d8bd57f61798d14d.png
where
8ce4b16b22b58894aa86c421e8759df3.png
is a constant factor characteristic of the spring, its stiffness.


Consider a simple helical spring that has one end attached to some fixed object, while the free end is being pulled by a force whose magnitude is
800618943025315f869e4e1f09471012.png
. Suppose that the spring has reached a state of equilibrium, where its length is not changing anymore. Let
02129bb861061d1a052c592e2dc6b383.png
be the amount by which the free end of the spring was displaced from its "relaxed" position (when it is not being stretched). Hooke's law states that
c2c4a7f57947a786b00bba66d08b109d.png
or, equivalently,
0b51d3fc262854c9ce1ebc8dec7b7c44.png
where
8ce4b16b22b58894aa86c421e8759df3.png
is a positive real number, characteristic of the spring. Moreover, the same formula holds when the spring is compressed, with
800618943025315f869e4e1f09471012.png
and
02129bb861061d1a052c592e2dc6b383.png
both negative in that case. According to this formula, the graph of the applied force
800618943025315f869e4e1f09471012.png
as a function of the displacement
02129bb861061d1a052c592e2dc6b383.png
will be a straight line passing through the origin, whose slope is
8ce4b16b22b58894aa86c421e8759df3.png
.


Hooke's law for a spring is often stated under the convention that
800618943025315f869e4e1f09471012.png
is the restoring (reaction) force exerted by the spring on whatever is pulling its free end. In that case the equation becomes
aa35a3ffb1793b6b6327dad80d750a31.png
since the direction of the restoring force is opposite to that of the displacement.


-Walter Lewin explains Hooke's law. From Walter Lewin (1 October 1999). Hooke's Law, Simple Harmonic Oscillator. MIT Course 8.01: Classical Mechanics, Lecture 10. (ogg) (videotape) (in English). Cambridge, MA USA: MIT OCW. Event occurs at 1:21–10:10. Retrieved 23 December 2010. "...arguably the most important equation in all of Physics."


Short version: Horse-hockey.
QED



-db

What about the fulcrum and non linear drop in the tension of the strings and then the bar is on one side ?
 




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