steel string supreme - a thread (Re: new statements from Mason/vertex)

[chanley]

I don't know if it's worth it's own thread, or even how to ask this without it spiraling down into some weird rabbit hole, but....
When is a "clone/copy/inspired" circuit considered ethical VS stealing? Is that even a thing? Josh at JHS has said that any circuit can be traced, gooped or not. (I mention him only because he made that statement, not because I am trying to accuse him or his company of anything...I don't know anything about making pedals).

 

[sonichronic]

I don't know if it's worth it's own thread, or even how to ask this without it spiraling down into some weird rabbit hole, but....
When is a "clone/copy/inspired" circuit considered ethical VS stealing? Is that even a thing? Josh at JHS has said that any circuit can be traced, gooped or not. (I mention him only because he made that statement, not because I am trying to accuse him or his company of anything...I don't know anything about making pedals).

it's considered stealing when you claim it's your circuit.

trust me there are tens maybe hundreds of builders who make EXACT copies or even take the original circuit board and build off of that. nothing wrong with that. there are no laws protecting electronic circuits.
some of the most respected builders make clones AND replicas because those circuits can no longer be found.

the line is crossed is when you claim it as your OWN!

Mason has done this with;
the Dynamic Distortion - claimed it as his own but https://www.thegearpage.net/board/i...tex-visits-andertons-uk.1992038/post-27483798
the Axis Wah - not going into this (a lot of his character came out in this while he fought telling the truth, (ie: lying about education, sending cease and desists to people, etc...)
Steel String - really the AMZ Boost he claimed it was his own design.
Dumble ODS vs Ultraphonix - using a FAKE Dumble in that video, claiming it was the real thing. even if he didn't know - he certainly found out once it was identified and here is a picture of the the real #097 ODS versus HIS #097

EDIT: I can't believe I forgot this one -

LA Sound Design - Mason used a board Mr. Phillips made for him and claimed it was his own work on the Vertex website.

it's NEVER been about clones this is what people don't understand, it's about lying to the gear community and claiming things that aren't yours.

 

[oildrops]

The fact that vertex is still a thriving brand is a testament to how TGP is an insignificant corner of the guitar gear world. This is where we are at with internet commerce- its fluff, search engine keywords, and selling an idea. They are playing the game and winning at it and probably know what they can get away with after this long pushing the boundaries. At the end of the day though it's just guitar pedals.,and him invoking sacred dumble words without valid dumble cred doesn't bother me at all. I won't ever buy his products, but you gotta hand it to him for still slinging his steel balls around.

 

[captaincoconut]

The fact that vertex is still a thriving brand is a testament to how TGP is an insignificant corner of the guitar gear world. This is where we are at with internet commerce- its fluff, search engine keywords, and selling an idea. They are playing the game and winning at it and probably know what they can get away with after this long pushing the boundaries. At the end of the day though it's just guitar pedals.,and him invoking sacred dumble words without valid dumble cred doesn't bother me at all. I won't ever buy his products, but you gotta hand it to him for still slinging his steel balls around.

Mason does a lot of things right when it comes to social media. Unlike many other pedal brands he understands how the game works.

 

[Mpcoluv]

What I find sad about Mason and many other builders for that matter is the plundering of the Dumble brand. I feel sorry for that guy because he legit gets taken to the cleaners by everyone riding his coat tails to fame. I guess he doesn't care too much about it and prefers to focus on his amp builds but if that guy ever started to sue people it would be doomsday. Dumble is just a guy that loves audio electronics and happens to build amps. He's not running some giant corporation or anything. You know what struck me most the first time I saw a Dumble in person? The Letraset rub on lettering he used on the chassis and the fact that some of the parts were good old Radio Shack standards. Reminds me of my first forays into electronics as a teen in the 80's.

I am not sure there is an amp builder alive who cares less about making $$$ and the business aspects than Dumble. I am
Sure he has been approached by big business with offers to mass produce his designs. He turns them down and quietly does his own thing.

 

[Mpcoluv]

Mason’s Greatest Hits Scams?
1.) BBE wah scam
2.) Belden cable scam
3.) RACKDOCTOR affair
4.) “I’ve got a EE from Berkeley
5.) “Berkeley d/c’d their EE program”
6.) Bonamassa affair
7.) “I modeled this pedal after the Dumble” (not a Dumble in video)
8.) “I modeled this pedal after a Dumble” (actually a Jack Orman circuit design)
9.) rinse, lather, repeat without remorse

what was the bonamassa affair

 

[drbob1]

Bonamassa sent him a pedalboard and pedals and asked him to make some custom cables and wire it up. It came back completely redone (cables, power supply, mounting) and didn't work properly. Then Mason charged him $1500!

 

[guy8string]

what was the bonamassa affair

Vertex (Page 1) — Joe's Guitars, Amps and Gear — Joe Bonamassa Forum

Vertex (Page 1) — Joe's Guitars, Amps and Gear — Joe Bonamassa Forum — The official forum for all things Joe Bonamassa, guitars and blues music

forum.jbonamassa.com

 

[Rusty Dutch]

Mods, can we have a Mason/Vertex forum room please, so that 99% of TGP users can set to ignore and never see this name come up again?

 

[Tiny Montgomery]

Mods, can we have a Mason/Vertex forum room please, so that 99% of TGP users can set to ignore and never see this name come up again?

Why sweep it under the rug? There are still enough people who don’t know to keep the guy in business.

That’s admittedly not accounting for the ones who know, but don’t care. Those folks are going to stand by their man no matter what, but I’d like to think there aren’t enough of them to comprise a viable market. Granted, pedals are pretty trivial in the grand scheme of things, as far as that mindset goes.

 

[Well Done]

How did he ever get anywhere after the L.A. Sound Design debacle?

I would have thought that shafting a firm as well respected as that would have ended him there and then.

 

[sonichronic]

@Rusty Dutch
I seriously don't understand how you are annoyed by these threads.
how hard is it to NOT click on a topic that is trending enough to consistently bump to the top, even when it's not trending.
every time these Vertex threads pop up we get a few more people to not give into Mason's gimmick. the last 3-4 Vertex threads have all stayed up an active. the conversation has remained within TOS and some valuble information has been shared. not just us vertex haters but I know of several well respected and OG builders in this community who have taken part in these threads, helped us identify circuits he claimed were his and expose Masons lies.

also what's with the idea to separate us out just because you think 99% of you are above this. you must think you are above it or you wouldn't want it censored from the EFFECTS page.

I don't want anything to do with mooer/mass-produced cheap a$s pedals but you don't see me asking to censor/delete a page of content and valuble information and/or put it somewhere else.
or hell, I hate like actually hate modeler and cheap digital pedals should I pop into each of those threads and ask mods to put them into a different forum because they aren't really effects pedals?

you see how ridiculous that sounds?

(EDIT: also... no hate @Rusty Dutch from what I can tell I think my interactions with you via the forum have been good... you know it gets confusing and I'm not so good with faces, names much less avatars. but I can understand redundancy being an annoyance, but the people who stand against vertex aren't all just Drama folk... from what I can tell it's people who really have a dis-taste for people like Mason. he's done nothing to redeem himself nd I'm the first person to shake his hand if he ever takes the proper path on his redemption. not gonna explain how that path looks but I think most people know. and obviously mason has no ****ing clue).

 

[JoeB63]

How did he ever get anywhere after the L.A. Sound Design debacle?

I would have thought that shafting a firm as well respected as that would have ended him there and then.

Consider Mason a microcosm, and it becomes clear.

 

[Edoardo_P]

How did he ever get anywhere after the L.A. Sound Design debacle?

I would have thought that shafting a firm as well respected as that would have ended him there and then.

I don't get it either, honestly. Everyone deserves a second chance. But 9 or 10 chances? I don't get how people would wanna deal with someone that lied about their degree on top of anything else. Especially in a field where degrees don't mean that much anyway - I mean, it's building guitar pedals we're talking about ffs, it's not like he needs to pretend to be a qualified gynecologist or anything like that.

Businessmen and shills alike tend to want trustworthy business partners. All it takes is someone to google for any Vertex product to forever associate their favourite youtube star with a set of really shady business practices.

Also, even if this was the guy's first pedal ever, watching this promotional video would give me shivers anyway.
Because I know he CANNOT drop names (or image-drop famous people) like that, unless there's a deal. And he knows it too. It is common knowledge.
He is just blatantly milking it until the "Cease & Desist" arrives. He indeed sounds like he totally paused himself before uttering JM's name (with much insecurity, like he knows he can't do that!), so that he can cut those 3 seconds from the footage later this year. It's bogus.

 

[lestera34]

It amazes me that how much people won’t let go a mistake that he has come out for a and publicly apologized for. There’s an entire section on his website about his refunds issued for the axis wah. The man has spent quite awhile and worked real hard to rebuild his reputation and come back into the industry with power. Sweetwater just released videos about his new pedals. I think if sweetwater associates with him and his brand, he should be good enough for you.

are you BillyMoss?

 

[soundbee]

In a recent business situation I stated a warning to my client about the “consultant” acting as their CTO, I said... “I’ve been a poseur for so long I can spot one a mile away.”

There’s a mentality that is present everywhere but seems to come out more in music - and especially with people lacking talent and/or confidence - that you have to do anything and everything to succeed. For these folks, that usually devolves to and includes lying, cheating, stealing, etc... and it’s all justified as “paying dues” or “dirty work” to getting their goal.

What seems different to me about this masonic character is that the Rhetts and the RJs of his world all (and I mean ALL) preface their shillings by saying “My friend, Mason Mangella...”). That’s just bizarre! Are they really all friends that bonded over some insecurities? Are they paid to stick that exact phrase in their vids? Is there some bizarre NXIUM-like sex-cult brainwashing going on? Whatever’s going on, it’s very cringe-y. Caveat emptor!

 

[JoeB63]

What seems different to me about this masonic character is that the Rhetts and the RJs of his world all (and I mean ALL) preface their shillings by saying “My friend, Mason Mangella...”). That’s just bizarre! Are they really all friends that bonded over some insecurities? Are they paid to stick that exact phrase in their vids? Is there some bizarre NXIUM-like sex-cult brainwashing going on? Whatever’s going on, it’s very cringe-y. Caveat emptor!

Yeah, isn't it weird when a whole bunch of people, who you'd think would have integrity and self-respect, who seemingly would value their reputation and their legacy and who you'd think would know better, sell their souls (so to speak) to a man who is clearly a self-centered scam artist, a liar and is essentially unqualified for his job?

 

[DewieCox]

Yeah, isn't it weird when a whole bunch of people, who you'd think would have integrity and self-respect, who seemingly would value their reputation and their legacy and who you'd think would know better, sell their souls (so to speak) to a man who is clearly a self-centered scam artist, a liar and is essentially unqualified for his job?

Shills gonna shill.

If one of their videos falls into my lap I might watch it, but it’s hard for me to put much stock in their output. The faux transparency of the recent Shull Night Sky video was a real eye roller.

 

[Cedar]

In a recent business situation I stated a warning to my client about the “consultant” acting as their CTO, I said... “I’ve been a poseur for so long I can spot one a mile away.”

There’s a mentality that is present everywhere but seems to come out more in music - and especially with people lacking talent and/or confidence - that you have to do anything and everything to succeed. For these folks, that usually devolves to and includes lying, cheating, stealing, etc... and it’s all justified as “paying dues” or “dirty work” to getting their goal.

What seems different to me about this masonic character is that the Rhetts and the RJs of his world all (and I mean ALL) preface their shillings by saying “My friend, Mason Mangella...”). That’s just bizarre! Are they really all friends that bonded over some insecurities? Are they paid to stick that exact phrase in their vids? Is there some bizarre NXIUM-like sex-cult brainwashing going on? Whatever’s going on, it’s very cringe-y. Caveat emptor!

I've noticed this "My friend" thing with these guys as well--it's just a way of saying "Here's a guy with a bunch of followers that I exchanged emails with" most of these guys have never met and are not what most would consider "Friends."

It's just feel-good BS to sell stuff and get clicks and followers.

RJ is an embarrassment at this point.

 

[loocnmad]

What seems different to me about this masonic character is that the Rhetts and the RJs of his world all (and I mean ALL) preface their shillings by saying “My friend, Mason Mangella...”). That’s just bizarre! Are they really all friends that bonded over some insecurities? Are they paid to stick that exact phrase in their vids? Is there some bizarre NXIUM-like sex-cult brainwashing going on? Whatever’s going on, it’s very cringe-y. Caveat emptor!

There's a very simple answer, money. "Influencers", and I really hate that term, are nothing more than paid advertisements whether it be from ad revenue, direct payments/free gear, or business connections. A video on Vertex's youtube channel features Rhett playing one of their pedals. He was most likely paid for that performance, though I can't say for sure, and that's fine. He's a talented guitar player and musicians have to perform to get paid. However, he's not a household name or a platinum recording artist. If he was to start turning down those offers, it would have a direct impact to his bottom line.

For example:
Let's say Mason paid me to make a video about one of his pedals so he could use it as part of Vertex's marketing. He still has other pedals and products out there that he wants to advertise. If I say nice things about him and his products in my personal videos, it's that much more likely I'll get his repeat business. I'll also be seen as a friendly and reliable outlet to other manufacturers. I may not get a big engagement from the likes of BOSS but with enough contacts at smaller companies it all starts to add up.