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STILL learning about pedals after YEARS...Cot50 content

Discussion in 'Effects, Pedals, Strings & Things' started by StompBoxBlues, Feb 9, 2008.

  1. StompBoxBlues

    StompBoxBlues Member

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    I'm just slow on the uptake, a few bricks shy of a load....

    I know, people mention a lot "I like to use X pedal for pushing the amp over, when it is just at the edge of breakup", and I thought I was doing that too, but now see I was not.

    I got a cot50 and liked it right away, but in one setup (Fender amp) using it a few times I kinda set it aside.

    I wasn't about to sell it, but in the configutation I was using it witht the clean fender sound, it was sounding a little harsh. It did clean up great with guitar volume, but there I had so many shiny new toys I just didn't spend the time with it.

    A year later, I am working with my Germino Classic 45 (JTM-45 clone) adn a weber attenuator to get that bloom and raw od, but I try different configurations (and this has to do with speakers too, using a used Marshall 4 x 12" closed back cab) and going back and forth with IT. Sometimes getting great tones, but (I think it is the speakers) there's a harshness that bites on the clean sound, just before breakup.

    So I get out my Zvex SHO, and my Marshall Guv'nor and the cot50. I turn the attenuator off, get it just under breakup, and try each. They ALL make it go into the wonderful sound I want, but of them, the Cot50 does it with THAT sound I want to hear. I haven't spent a lot of time tweaking the guv'nor (and it has SOMETHING too) and the SHO is just a bias knob (as is the cot50) but the cot50 just made it come alive. I was adjusting with it on, and finall getting that allman bros Fillmore East sound, in spades.

    I turn off the cot50 and my amp sounds okay, but too dark.

    This was what probably bothered me with the Fenders, as they are bright amps (the ones I have) anyway, and the cot50 took them too bright.
    I'm not saying cot50 can't work with Fender amps, just that...My GOD...it REALLY worked in my setup, with my cabinet, and an Epi les paul, (I usually use a strat) and suddenly THERE it WAS!! The SOUND!

    I am not sure why exactly I am writing this except that I am truly excited and wanted to share. The other day I played the Germino and thought about selling it. Now...no way.

    This is why I tend not to sell pedals I don't bond with right away. I figure there is some configuration where it is the perfect pedal.

    Also that with some pedals, you do have to use them with an amp just before breakup. I did this with mine, and after...attenuated just slightly, the volume with the attenuator. It changed a little bit of the tone, but I could adjust it.

    Then I find when I turn off the pedal, the Germino is set very much more bassy than I would use it...sounde like the cliche'd "under a thin blanket" sound. Not something I would want to play with a lot, but the cot50 interacts so well with the volume control that I don't think I want to have it turned off at all.

    I was having a hard time deciding whether to patch-cord the inputs on the Germino, and there is another variable in the equation...using the low or high input, bright or normal (normal on mine is pretty muddy with the speakers I use it with).

    And then there is the volume control on the guitar...in the past years I have become more and more a constant "tweaker" on guitar vol, and the pedal helps out there.

    Main thing I guess I am trying to say, it makes a huge difference which day it is, how your ears are, which guitar, where the guitar is set on volume and tone, which pedal.

    It's amazing that one can go from a non-impressive sound to perfect sound just by tweaking one or more of the above.

    I'm glad I kept the pedal!
     
  2. dbx

    dbx Member

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    I think this is the mystery that propels the search...there are so many variables and combinations, I don't think you can get your mix without spending time (and/or $$$) to find the one that works...good for you, so you found the COT50/Fender mix too bright? (Which Fender/speakers?)
     
  3. Curly

    Curly Member

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    yeah, after years of playing, I still discover guitar / amp combos that surprise me. throw a pedal into the mix, and it just multiplies the equation.

    some seem to take it hard when something doesn't work out ... often, I think it's the particular application rather than the gear itself that's the problem
     
  4. blues

    blues Supporting Member

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    Hey Stompboxblues I used to uses attenuaters with a early 70"s 50 watt metal panal. A victoria bassman too. I found that you still have to play fairly loud with an attenuater. I dont think they were made to play at bedroom volume. I have the purple plexi and a bluesface (has a cot50 in it) from Sean. Both work well with my victoria. They clean up very well. I experiment with the inputs also. Most of the time I jump the inputs. I get a very good clean sound from the pedal by backing off on the volume. Reminds me of The Wind Cries Mary. Turn up the volume on the guitar and it just kills. I would have kept my old marshall half stack if I was willing to use pedals then. Talk about being stupid! When I use the bluesface or the purple plexi. I turn the volume on the guitar down,and set the amp so you get the pedals clean sound. You may have to set the amp a bit louder for the pedals clean sound to get an appreciation on how good it really is. This helped me to figure out what inputs to use on my amp. Then you can just turn the guitars volume to get it to break-up. This is what I do if Im going to leave the pedal on all the time. Forgot,had to edit. IF your are using a cab with the GT-75 speakers in it,they can sound muddy compared to greanbacks,creambacks ect.
     
  5. dbx

    dbx Member

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    When reading posts like these, I think it would be cool to have some kind of table that cross-references the different combinations/settings...not as an absolute reference but as a starting guideline...(it would be alot of work and span other equipment I don't have...this might one for the "collective"...)
     
  6. Strat58

    Strat58 Member

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    Qute: I turn off the cot50 and my amp sounds okay, but too dark.
    So the COT50 is a treble booster then ?
    Peace Strat58
     
  7. radcliff

    radcliff Member

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    It does add some sheen and presence, there is a treble bite, but not a huge one
     
  8. StompBoxBlues

    StompBoxBlues Member

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    I used to think the same, but have come around to thinking that it wouldn't be useful, in fact would be misleading.

    With another humbucker guitar, and other tubes, etc...all the variables. Unfortunately (or in another aspect, fortunately) though I really have come to the conclusion that there is no "recipe" (and I know you didn't think it would be THAT easy, you said "just as a start point" but even then I think there are too many variables) I am good with that.

    I think part of my problem is that I have enough money that I can buy some amps, pedals, and guitars now, as opposed to when I was younger (or most of my life actually) and that presents a new set of problems.

    I mean, when I was a kid, I had money enough for ONE good amp, a pedal or two, and I saved for a year for a used ES-335. I saved for another year for an Ampeg VT-22 410. I got SO much use out of those because it was all I had. Now I bought this Germino, used it a few times, thought "I probably just need to get into it more, and maybe buy another cabinet for it" and left it alone for a while while I used a few other amps.
    I am really excited by the new sounds I am getting, and found that the Cot50 REALLY complements the Classic 45. It puts it right where I want it.

    I guess a lesson here is, I WAS on the right track, just didn't go far enough. It is paying off, thinking a little more and also understanding that I THOUGHT I was getting it just under breakup but I wasn't...

    The two inputs are SO different too, I was never sure which one I ought to use or even which I liked best. Turns out, with adjustments they can sound very similar (bright and normal) but it is the Cot50 that makes it all come alive, the catylist.

    To strat58, I wouldn't call the Cot50 a treble booster at all. I think what is happening is the same as if I didn't have it and played the amp with guitar volume down...then turned it up. At the higher (into saturation) OD level, the sound gets more trebly...I think the Cot50 is boosting the amp, which in turn gets a clearer sound.

    Also the attenuator, like I said, I first have it off, to get my sound, then attenuate and I do hear that it loses some of the bass and treble...and adjust a little so I can have more than bedroom, but still not ear damaging levels and the sound the same as it was at the high level.

    I'm having a hard time communicating what I was hoping to here. Mainly it is that some pedals a person might "brush off" after trying a little, can make it all work in the right situation. I am really glad I kept the Cot50, but even though it wasn't making my DeVille, or my Prosonic sing the way I want, it does it perfect with my Germino.

    Also that the pedal wouldn't do it as well if I had the Germino set at much lower volume. It needs to be clean but still close to breakup (like if I turned the volume knob one notch higher it would start to break up without the pedal) and like many have mentioned here, the Cot50 pushes the amp over-the-top into just the right kind of breakup. I had been moving away from pedals because I felt the amp sound was so much better, but in this case, just moving the volume knob would get me some nice OD, but the levels would be too high, and I was going for the Allman and Warren Haynes sounds, and the amp alone wouldn't get there, without attenuation and then it is once more affecting the tone. The cot50 puts it RIGHT where I want it with guitar vol then able to go clean or dirty.
     
  9. pappafox

    pappafox Member

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    Soo...How's the Cot50 sound with the Strat? I really want to buy that pedal (finally learning to use the vol knob on the guitar), but I'm concerned that it would be a bit piercing with a Strat/Marshall 1987x.
     

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