Still no sign of Gibson having a NAMM exhibit this year...

Discussion in 'Guitars in General' started by SinglecutGuy, Jan 1, 2018.


  1. Gurn

    Gurn Silver Supporting Member

    Messages:
    419
    Joined:
    May 18, 2012
    Location:
    Either Gulf Coast or SE Asia
    kbgear and Bluedawg like this.
  2. Boundcustom

    Boundcustom Member

    Messages:
    890
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2011
    Location:
    Port Townsend, WA
    Gibson would have to be in the market to get new dealers or business at the NAMM show to make it worth going. I have not seen any evidence that they are looking for growth in the dealership channel.

    As for the value of the show. I change my opinion on that regularly. Most of my purchasing happens outside the show during the year. I do however have one week every year where I can develop opinions on many potential purchasing decisions for the year. It is an amazing place to send my staff for training they will never get sitting in the store. We can never underestimate the value of the millions of videos shared during the show.

    The show is honestly too big for the size of industry MI is but it is tied to show business so put on a show. One issue that comes with that is the guy who has too much money sees the show and gets exited about how much he will make starting a guitar, amp or retail company without understanding NAMM is a performance. Soon after blowing a small fortune a number of bridges get burned by this type newcomer every year.

    Why do I go? Hell it is usually sunny in California and cold in Washington so why not go see friends, great music, that mouse across the street and spend a few million like a baller one week a year?
     
    kbgear likes this.
  3. griggsterr

    griggsterr Supporting Member

    Messages:
    3,797
    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2014
    Location:
    Midwest
    Yes and no.
    There are a ton of new ideas and innovations to be seen at a show.
    But not all of them are great ideas. I often go downstairs to hall E and wonder what made people stick their time and hard earned money into this or that. Probably one of the goofier ideas was a product called Stage Ninja. Google it. Still another was this guitar that had these skeleton like sides you could change out keeping the center mass intact. They actually hung around for several years. Name escapes me right now.
    Guitar players are just so completely into their hero worship things and that quickly evolves into gear worship.
    There are and have been some killer products introduced in the last 15 years or so that mostly didn't make it or still don't get a decent share of the market because they are new ideas and don't fit into the hero/gear/vintage worship box. I will give Gibson credit for at least trying to introduce new things and new technologies. Fender would never do a lot the stuff Gibson has. Fender is the king of waiting until everyone else has been doing it for 5 years then come out with something and claim it's innovative. Their cyber amps would be a prime example or their Mustang amps (in that case it was more like nearly 10 years) While I never owned a Parker guitar or a Steinberger, both are legitimate engineering masterpieces. Do they both look different? Did Hendrix or Miles or Brubeck or the Beatles worry much about being different? So the strange dichotomy we have is we love and worship musicians who threw the rule book out and were different and most of us wouldn't dare to do anything different. I say let the music inside you come out.
    I know I went on a tirade here. I'm passionate about this stuff. :)
     
  4. griggsterr

    griggsterr Supporting Member

    Messages:
    3,797
    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2014
    Location:
    Midwest
    As a consumer buyer? or meaning you are a buyer for a store?
    As a consumer buyer unfortunately almost no business being there. But the place is full of consumer buyers.
     
  5. griggsterr

    griggsterr Supporting Member

    Messages:
    3,797
    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2014
    Location:
    Midwest
    Yep, not trying to go down a political rant here but once you get there you are locked into union rates and wages too. I figure it costs a minimum $1,000 to just go stay for 5 days and come back. That's if you stay in a 2 star hotel.
     
  6. MikeMcK

    MikeMcK Member

    Messages:
    2,424
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2007
    Location:
    Jersey shore
    ... which is part of the reason vendors have trouble justifying NAMM presence. I was offered a pass to summer NAMM a few years back, but remembered hearing a gear maker talk about the difficulty in doing business when you don't know who's actually there for the reasons the show exists in the first place. You can't spend 20 minutes with a potential end user when you're supposed to be talking to retailers.
     
  7. griggsterr

    griggsterr Supporting Member

    Messages:
    3,797
    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2014
    Location:
    Midwest
    Yep, which further reinforces my idea of having 2 days of businesses only and 2 days of consumer/entertainers/musicians and performances.
     
    Boundcustom likes this.
  8. Bluedawg

    Bluedawg Member

    Messages:
    9,878
    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2002
    Location:
    Arizona, USA
    I managed to get into the 1994 Nashville NAMM show .. which included tours of Gibson's Custom Shop and main plant since my sponsor was a Gibson dealer ..... and I visited the Frankfurt Musikmesse in the late 90s while living in Germany.

    As a low level consumer I think it's worth going at least once if you love guitars and music gear

    But it wasn't a major financial outlay for me either time ... I was living in Memphis in '94 and I was living in Worms, Germany when I visited the Musikmesse .... so both times it was an easy day trip from my home

    Whether it's worth making it the central point of an expensive vacation is another question ... :dunno

    :banana
     
    kbgear likes this.
  9. 2HBStrat

    2HBStrat Member

    Messages:
    29,976
    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2009
    Location:
    East of the Rockies...
    I thnk it would be the opposite. I mean really, what do you see at boating shows that is "really" new and exciting? I would expect a lot of "oh, wow" moments at NAMM......
     
    kbgear likes this.
  10. mattball826

    mattball826 Member

    Messages:
    17,553
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2009
    No some brands really innovate with new colors added. Real innovations like paint.... swoons the masses ! Stuff like Parker, EBMM, Gibsons with electronics, Variax, and others are just lame shii added to guitars that nobody needs. lol. Just stick with old designs and change the paint colors every once in a while and your company will be tagged with brilliancy.
     
  11. Mikhael

    Mikhael Member

    Messages:
    1,354
    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2013
    Let's see, 5 "gutsy" new models. LP, LP double-cut, RD, Explorer, Firebird... Where's the "new" and "gutsy" parts? New colours?!? Really?
     
    peskypesky and kbgear like this.
  12. 70' s Tone

    70' s Tone Member

    Messages:
    746
    Joined:
    May 30, 2017
    The premise for my next novel...thanks! :p
     
    peskypesky likes this.
  13. therhodeo

    therhodeo Member

    Messages:
    6,984
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2006
    Location:
    Owasso, OK
    NAMM banning lifestyle brands for serious manufacturers now?
     
  14. JPH118

    JPH118 Member

    Messages:
    476
    Joined:
    May 29, 2012
    Location:
    NJ/NYC
    Reminds me a little of Digidesign skipping AES back in '08 or '09, it was confusing at the time but eventually led to a major rebranding under the Avid name, which has done the company incredibly well. Digi had developed somewhat of a negative stigma in the recording community (although that didn't prevent it from remaining the industry standard), but that's changed a lot in the time since.

    Who knows what the future holds for Gibson though, i think it's time for new leadership.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
    peskypesky likes this.
  15. filtersweep

    filtersweep Member

    Messages:
    3,711
    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2011
    Location:
    Norway
    I doubt the margins are big at all if you compare their published earnings vs revenue.

    Gibson owes a half billion USD on $1.2B annual revenue. Debt to EBITDA ratio is 10. Anything above 4 should be worrisome. Back of the napkin math shows about a 4% profit margin across brands/products. (Debt ratio of 10 implies $50M in earnings, divided by $1.2B is 4.2%). That is a very low margin.
     
    griggsterr and kbgear like this.
  16. HERSCHEL

    HERSCHEL Member

    Messages:
    1,405
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2017
    In many industries, especially hobby industries, the big players have begun pulling out of the big, expensive trade shows. It's not a bad sign for the company, it's that they've done the math and seen that it's a bad investment. I'm a bit surprised Fender hasn't ducked out already also. Both companies have the brand recognition already and can embed a few new products with other distributors at the show.

    A small builder wants/needs the platform a NAMM gives them, the big dogs don't.
     
    BlackCheer72 likes this.
  17. HERSCHEL

    HERSCHEL Member

    Messages:
    1,405
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2017
    You're the symptom of a stagnant market and a data point as to why NAMM isn't worth the cost. You don't want anything new or innovative so you're not really factored in their business growth plan as your wants aren't a vehicle for growth. Their upper-end Epiphones already cover the ground you stand on, from a business standpoint.
     
  18. HERSCHEL

    HERSCHEL Member

    Messages:
    1,405
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2017
    It's interesting that you bring up Comic-Con as the other big, customer-facing convention, GenCon has seen its former biggest exhibitor presence, Wizards of the Coast (owned by megacorp Hasbro) pull out of showing up directly. Third-party vendors run their tournament games and some of the bigger online shops feature their products so it's really a money put for them to show up even though GenCon finally limited attendance due to size/space for the first time last year.
     
  19. HERSCHEL

    HERSCHEL Member

    Messages:
    1,405
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2017
    Heck, RV manufacturers are rolling out the new model years in May, months before the new chassis are available from manufacturers. It can make the used market especially a bit wonky as the chassis VIN on those units will show a model year older than the finish manufacturer claims it is.
     
    peskypesky likes this.

Share This Page