strange scales?

Discussion in 'Playing and Technique' started by stratmaster48, Apr 4, 2008.

  1. stratmaster48

    stratmaster48 Member

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    I know all of the scales based out of the major. (modes) What are some strange scales that I should check out?
     
  2. GuitaristZ

    GuitaristZ Guest

    phrygian dominant ftw!

    Satriani's favorite scale. ;)

    5th mode of the Harmonic Minor scale and has the formula
    1 b2 b 4 5 b6 b7 1

    you could think of it as regular phrygian with a major third
     
  3. Austinrocks

    Austinrocks Member

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    Phyrigian Dominant, cool name for the 5th mode in the Harmonic Minor Scale,

    Guitar Grimore has a lot scales, that is where I learned the other scales that are common.

    Most common are the

    Diatonic Scale which is what we commonly use 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
    Melodic Minor or Jazz Scale 1 2 b3 4 5 6 7
    Harmonic Minor 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 7
    Harmonic Major 1 2 3 4 5 b6 7

    Those are the ones that are the most common scales that you should know there are many more like

    Hungarian Minor 1 2 3 #4 5 b6 7 which is interesting cause it has 3 notes together,
    Double Harmonic is the 5th mode of the Hungarian Harmonic

    Double Harmonic 1 b2 3 4 5 b6 7 all the notes are pairs

    ALT bb7 is the 7th mode, interesting cause it has a bb7

    Alt bb7 1 b2 b3 b4 5 6 bb7

    Hungarian Major 1 2 3 4 5 b6 7

    5th mode Dominant b2 1 b2 3 4 5 6 b7

    7th mode is Locrian bb7 1 b2 b3 4 b5 b6 bb7

    In most cases people tend to remember the 1st, 5th and 7th modes, those are the ones we most use, the 7th mode is also the easiest to play, its just the Scale starting on the 7th, so easy to remember that.
     
  4. Austinrocks

    Austinrocks Member

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    Let me say what I posted in the previous post interesting, scales have cool names and you can learn and try to remember the modes, but that really does not get you anywhere, I posted the scale from memory, there maybe a mistake, it really does not matter to me.

    What is important is comming up with a way to play in those scales, I will show you how I approach it.

    A Harmonic Minor is a common Scale, E Phyrigian Dominant is common that is what a lot of the Phyrigian Dominant Players use, its has the same note as the A Harmonic Minor

    A Harmonic Minor is the A Minor Scale with a natural third, A Minor is in the Key of C

    Key of C is C D E F G A B C

    A Harmonic Minor is A B C D E F G# A

    So I have the Hamonic Minor by playing the Key of C with G# replacing G, kind of like Key of G with F# replacing F.

    E Phrygian Dominant, E F G# A B C D E

    You can try to remember the formula

    E Phrygian Dominant 1 b2 3 4 5 b6 b7

    E is E F# G# A B C# D# E

    however understanding the relationships of the scale your trying to play is much simpler IMO.

    not sure if i totaly lost and confused you or not. This is how I play out of the Scales, just figure out the notes and play them.
     
  5. Flyin' Brian

    Flyin' Brian Member

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    Don't forget the BeBop scale, seldom played ascending, so it can be something like this which (in C) works over C7, Gm7 or Em7b5

    C-B-Bb-A-G-F-E-D-C
     
  6. marcher5877

    marcher5877 Member

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    Spainish Phygrian has been my go-to "lets get weird" scale for the last year or so.


    Yea, I need to hit the books again and find some new stuff.
     
  7. JonR

    JonR Member

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    The harmonic major scale mentioned by Austinrocks is not common, it's extremely rare - but of course is worth checking out for that reason! (If you want "strange")

    "Phrygian dominant" = spanish phrygian = major phrygian = 5th mode harmonic minor (as mentioned above), is not that rare, but has a useful "Spanish/gypsy/Moorish" sound.

    Modes of melodic minor (such as superlocrian or altered, and lydian dominant) are popular in jazz, so not particularly "strange".

    Bebop scales are basically just ordinary 7-note scales with an additional passing note. As well "bebop dominant" (the one posted by Flyin' Brian), there's "bebop major" (1-2-3-4-5-#5-6-7), "bebop dorian" (1-2-b3-3-4-5-6-b7) and "bebop melodic minor" (1-2-b3-4-5-#5-6-7).
    They're all designed to enable 8th-note runs (over specific chords) which will land on chord tones.

    The "Double harmonic" (Byzantine) scale is a cool one. Very popular in the middle east and south-eastern Europe, but the only western tune I know to use it is "Misirlou" (written in the 1930s, made famous by Dick Dale and Pulp Fiction). It's like phrygian dominant, but with a major 7.
    In E (like Misirlou), it's E-F-G#-A-B-C-D#.

    Beyond there, there are countless ethnic scales, such as Indian ragas or "thats", or Persian/Turkish "maqams" - equivalent to our modal system, but much more extensive.
     
  8. JSeth

    JSeth Member

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    Couple of cool ones that I learned from a recent Berklee grad (recent in 1977!!!) -

    1/2 tone - whole tone scales - good for blues/funk/"out there" dom 7th changes... Just like what it says - 1/2 step then whole step, etc...

    whole tone scales

    and my favorite; take any scale or arpeggio, then play the note 1/2 step below, then 1/2 stp above, then the actual note - then move to the next note in the scale and do the same... if you practise this slowly and get used to doing 1/4's, 1/8's, triplets/ 16ths - then you can rip em at speed and the sound is kind of a "floating - all over - outside - breaking loose" kind of feel... very useful device to move from one key to the next, to break out of learned patterns of play, to add a "loosey-goosey" feel... try the reverse as well - above then below - very different feel than below and above, altho one might think they'd sound/feel the same...

    and there you have it!!!
    Good luck! Have fun!

    John Seth Sherman
     
  9. rsmeets

    rsmeets Member

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    you can make your own.. you have 12 notes to choose from- choose 5-8 notes to start with and see what you get...
     
  10. gennation

    gennation Member

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  11. Sunbreak Music

    Sunbreak Music Member

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  12. GovernorSilver

    GovernorSilver Member

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    If you get a fretless guitar or into playing with a slide, there are a lot of ethnic scales. For a little while, I worked a lot on a Persian scale (Shuur) that had a quartertone-flatted major 2nd (aka "neutral" 2nd), regular m3, and quartertone-flatted M7.
     
  13. Shiny McShine

    Shiny McShine Member

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    Lydian Dominant...

    It's the basis for The Simpson's Theme Song.

    It works over the Dominant flat 2 passing chord.
     
  14. stratmaster48

    stratmaster48 Member

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  15. stratmaster48

    stratmaster48 Member

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  16. JonR

    JonR Member

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    You want more, go here...
    http://www.xs4all.nl/~huygensf/doc/modename.html

    Tip #1: It's the "12-tone modes" list you want. The others are designed for different tuning systems (non-12th octave divisions), and aren't possible on fretted guitars.

    Tip #2: :warning take some food and supplies, and maybe leave a message with your family before you enter, or they might send out a search party after a week or two...

    You will probably look like this when they find you...:crazy
     
  17. Austinrocks

    Austinrocks Member

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    Lots of good stuff, thanks
     

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