Subwoofer. Help me choose.

ercguitar

Member
Messages
461
ive never heard the qsc honestly, but i do have the ELX118s... and they sounds great for what we do... clubs/bars. a lot of our places require a set dbl so ive gotta not be too powerfull... still sound ok outside. granted thats just ok. would be great to have dual 18s per side but just no need....

ercguitar- have you ever heard of american musical supply?? that is where i get ALL my gear from ($12,000 and counting) you can do 3/mo payment really- no questions asked. basic stuff. if you have little (good) credit, you may be able to do 5. i started out, i finished 3 3mo, and 2 5mo, and now im up in 8mo and 12mo payments. all no interest. makes it a LOT easier to pay off then fronting all that cash.
actually right now they have the qscs for 12mo....
ive got some good gear through these guys at affordable payments. check them out

Funny you mention the ELX118. I just (not 10 minutes ago) saw one pop up in good shape on our local craigslist. Guy wants $500 obo for it. Good deal, but after going through this thread, I think I'm gonna stick with the EV ZXA1 Sub. It's much smaller and lighter and will get the job done, and I could always get a 2nd later.

That's really cool with the AMS stuff. Did not know that. Could come in handy. Thanks.
 

Jon Silberman

10Q Jerry & Dickey
Silver Supporting Member
Messages
44,668
Interesting. I've been researching subs, too. My main criterium is simple - 50 lbs. or less per unit. I simply won't deal with anything heavier anymore. The EV ZXA1s seemed like a match made in heaven but I said, gotta check out TGP buzz on subs, generally. Very pleased to read the positive comments here, too, on the ZXA1s. I'm also considering matching a pair with a pair of QSC main 10's or 12's.
 

GCDEF

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
28,891
Interesting. I've been researching subs, too. My main criterium is simple - 50 lbs. or less per unit. I simply won't deal with anything heavier anymore. The EV ZXA1s seemed like a match made in heaven but I said, gotta check out TGP buzz on subs, generally. Very pleased to read the positive comments here, too, on the ZXA1s. I'm also considering matching a pair with a pair of QSC main 10's or 12's.

50 pounds for a useable sub is a pretty unrealistic goal. The EV only goes down to 53hz at -3dB. It'll fatten your bottom end a bit, but I wouldn't count on getting any real thump out of it.
 

Jon Silberman

10Q Jerry & Dickey
Silver Supporting Member
Messages
44,668
Everything has its tradeoffs. I'm copacetic with this.

P.S. I'm basically with this guy now ...

Lots of good advice here..

As far as buying 18" subs.. I can tell you from my experience since I had 2 of them..

I bought them with the intent of using them at every gig..

I had them for 2 years and they left my house maybe 3 times... and I played out over 50 times..

Mine where huge and very heavy..

The newer QSC are a lot smaller than mine but, they are still to big to fit in a mid size car...

IMO the smaller EV with 12" speakers are more than adequate for a small to medium room

And since you are running K10's you are limited to room size already...
 
Last edited:

Drewboy

Member
Messages
665
Not to derail, just a question. I have and heard powered tops and monitors and think they are great and practical. But as far as subs, I haven't heard the type of bass and punch from actives that could even compare to a proper passive set. Granted, I haven't heard the KW from QSC. But it's hard to imagine they could compete with two STX or SRX subs with a smoking amp at the same price point basically. No? I know class D power amps have come a long way , I just haven't heard actives give that push and release punch that the right passive set ups do. Not yet. Happy new year gang.
 

GCDEF

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
28,891
Not to derail, just a question. I have and heard powered tops and monitors and think they are great and practical. But as far as subs, I haven't heard the type of bass and punch from actives that could even compare to a proper passive set. Granted, I haven't heard the KW from QSC. But it's hard to imagine they could compete with two STX or SRX subs with a smoking amp at the same price point basically. No? I know class D power amps have come a long way , I just haven't heard actives give that push and release punch that the right passive set ups do. Not yet. Happy new year gang.

I don't see how it would make any difference if the amp is inside the box or outside. If anything, I would think because all the components are properly matched, you should be able to get better performance from actives. I use active for everything, including subs and can't see ever going back.
 

Drewboy

Member
Messages
665
I don't see how it would make any difference if the amp is inside the box or outside. If anything, I would think because all the components are properly matched, you should be able to get better performance from actives. I use active for everything, including subs and can't see ever going back.

I hear you buddy. And I'm with you and sold on the active tops and monitors. I should have added the passive subs I used and heard are pushed with Class H style amps that sound better to my ears. Maybe my comparison and question is more related to the power amps rather than the subs themselves. I just haven't heard any actives that will out perform STX subs with a macrotech or xti crown amp. If they perform that way now, then that's awesome. I know class d has come a long way. I just haven't heard subs that do it for me presently.
 

willie k

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
2,640
I have a pair of K10s, and ONE KW118. It was plenty for a recent outdoor gig. Two would be great, but we honestly didn't miss the second one. The KW118 will move a serious amount of air.
 

Jon Silberman

10Q Jerry & Dickey
Silver Supporting Member
Messages
44,668
The genre of music matters a lot when it comes to how much low end thump you really need.
 

mykljpao

Member
Messages
538
I've had a zxa1 sub for about a year and usually pair it with the matching zxa1 tops for softer, smaller venues. Amazing low end within its design limits ( as has been pointed out). However, I was more impressed when I got stuck and had to use it with a larger system for a loud rock band. Not enough but did the trick at the last second. Far better than I had any right to expect. Very punchy. A coupled pair would likely be great. Although, not if you need 30hz impact.
 

Motterpaul

Tone is in the Ears
Messages
13,726
Have you guys ever blown out the 18-inch speakers? I'll bet they cost a fortune to re-cone. Subs tend to blow out more than anything because of the extreme bass soundmen feed into them - unless you know your system and everyone who will be touching it.

I would personally go for a folded horn instead of a front loaded 18, seems like you get a lot more low end for less speaker and power. That was how we done in them olden days.

Here is a good discussion on the merits of both systems. http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,139025.0.html One guy argues that front loaded sounds punchier (they do) and that you can fit FOUR or them in the space of two folded horns, and the foot print is the same (for the same amount of SPL). In other words, they sound better, but you may pay 4-times as much.

I always get the feeling that part of audio these days is NOT making the cheaper alternatives available. They tell you front loaded sounds best so that is all they sell, then you pay dearly.

And someone could put their high heel through it.
 

Jon Silberman

10Q Jerry & Dickey
Silver Supporting Member
Messages
44,668
Last edited:

modulusman

Member
Messages
2,228
Slide digression - with respect to EV's powered mains, what benefits does the ELX (37 lbs.)

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/electro-voice-elx112p-active-12-loudspeaker

provide relative to the ZXA1 (19 lbs. for the 8" speaker - are they only available in 8"?))

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/electro-voice-zxa1-90-powered-pa-speaker

or the ZLX (34 lbs.)?

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/electro-voice-zlx-12p-12-2-way-powered-loudspeaker
On paper the ELX is twice as loud as the ZXA. The ZLX is relatively new so I have not seen any reviews. Since it is cheaper it probably uses cheaper components.
 

Jon Silberman

10Q Jerry & Dickey
Silver Supporting Member
Messages
44,668
On paper the ELX is twice as loud as the ZXA. The ZLX is relatively new so I have not seen any reviews. Since it is cheaper it probably uses cheaper components.
Also, though I haven't had time to research it personally, I did see someone on another forum suggest that the ZLX uses the same tweeter as the ELX but a slightly cheaper woofer and also the enclosures differ. Can someone confirm this (or maybe I can tonight)?

And I found this post on another forum:

Ev zlx

Watched every video I could find. Down loaded the manual. There is not a single mention that this is a bi amped box. Most powered speakers that are Bi Amped have information as to the power to each bandpass,the advantages of having a bi amped box, etc. Its a selling point. Yet not a mention anywhere in regards to this speaker. I sent EV a email. I'll see how that goes........
I believe this is a single amp box.

Douglas R. Allen
 

ercguitar

Member
Messages
461
Info for this thread keeps popping up... (and if you ask me, it's become a decent repository for subs available for small/medium gigs)

As I said before, my last gig I rented a Mackie SRM1801 from my local music shop. It did well, and was about right for the room I was in. I wish it has a bit tighter punch, but it got the job done.

Well, the shop just did away with those subs, and now has the new Peavey PVXp Subs (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/peavey-pvxp-sub-new-15-800-watt-powered-sub). I'm renting 2 of them for my gig this Saturday, and I'm anxious to see how they perform. Same price as the ZXA1 sub, but for a 15" and a bit more power.

Thoughts anyone?
 

loudboy

Member
Messages
27,309
Have you guys ever blown out the 18-inch speakers? I'll bet they cost a fortune to re-cone. Subs tend to blow out more than anything because of the extreme bass soundmen feed into them - unless you know your system and everyone who will be touching it.

I would personally go for a folded horn instead of a front loaded 18, seems like you get a lot more low end for less speaker and power. That was how we done in them olden days.

Here is a good discussion on the merits of both systems. http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,139025.0.html One guy argues that front loaded sounds punchier (they do) and that you can fit FOUR or them in the space of two folded horns, and the foot print is the same (for the same amount of SPL). In other words, they sound better, but you may pay 4-times as much.

I always get the feeling that part of audio these days is NOT making the cheaper alternatives available. They tell you front loaded sounds best so that is all they sell, then you pay dearly.

And someone could put their high heel through it.

It depends on the venue.

In a smaller club, a frontloaded 18 will put a lot of punch right on the dancefloor, and keep it there.

A folded horn will blow drinks off the bar 50' away, but maybe not as much thump on the floor.
 

jonthomas

Member
Messages
8
Also, though I haven't had time to research it personally, I did see someone on another forum suggest that the ZLX uses the same tweeter as the ELX but a slightly cheaper woofer and also the enclosures differ. Can someone confirm this (or maybe I can tonight)?

And I found this post on another forum:

Even the bottom tier Alto/Behringer boxes are Bi-Amped, passive X-Overs might even be more expensive than chip amps these days...

ZLX Description:

Mighty Bi-Amp Output
"Each ZLX-12P is a true 2-way bi-amp design, driving 1,000 watts between the woofer and tweeter cone. The 12-inch low frequency woofer is an EVS-12K, specially-designed to deliver a low end that is tight and clearly defined even when pushing out maximum volumes. The 1.5-inch DH-1K high-frequency transducer is a titanium compression driver. The speakers benefit hugely from the authentic Class-D amp design in the ZLX-12P, which allows the amplifier to use power far more efficiently than an AB switching system, eliminating much of the heat gain common in other powered speakers."

Now for sure the power figure is inflated but reviews are decent enough at the price it sells for.
 

GCDEF

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
28,891
I picked up a couple of ZLX-12Ps to use as monitors a few weeks ago. Since then, the drummer picked up a 15, and the singer ordered two 15s. We used both 12s and the drummer's 15 as monitors this weekend, and everybody was very happy. Long term, I don't know how they'll hold up, but they seem like a good speaker, especially given their price.
 

RGB

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
6,431
I wanted a small footprint powered sub to match with my K10's as well, and ended up with the Mackie DLM12S. If you can try one out you may be surprised at how much low end punch this tiny sub has.

I'd actually like to have a pair in the future, but for small clubs the single sub is doing a pretty darn good job for us...and the whole system fits on the back seat of my pickup.
 

GCDEF

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
28,891
Even the bottom tier Alto/Behringer boxes are Bi-Amped, passive X-Overs might even be more expensive than chip amps these days...

ZLX Description:

Mighty Bi-Amp Output
"Each ZLX-12P is a true 2-way bi-amp design, driving 1,000 watts between the woofer and tweeter cone. The 12-inch low frequency woofer is an EVS-12K, specially-designed to deliver a low end that is tight and clearly defined even when pushing out maximum volumes. The 1.5-inch DH-1K high-frequency transducer is a titanium compression driver. The speakers benefit hugely from the authentic Class-D amp design in the ZLX-12P, which allows the amplifier to use power far more efficiently than an AB switching system, eliminating much of the heat gain common in other powered speakers."

Now for sure the power figure is inflated but reviews are decent enough at the price it sells for.

Can you post a link to where you found that. Everything I can find implies a single amp. I've never seen anything referring to biamping.
 




Trending Topics

Top Bottom