Suhr Fret Issues

[Rafterman]

Any Suhr dealer events going on at factory during NAMM or special shows for dealers only?

 

[Husky]

Any Suhr dealer events going on at factory during NAMM or special shows for dealers only?

nothing we are actually hosting but we are sponsering a show at the Slidebar on Friday. Check with them for tickets. Nick Johnston, Mark Lettieri, Andy Timmons, Andy Wood.
http://www.slidebarfullerton.com/

 

[Rafterman]

Outstanding! I'll be there. I'll see you on the NAMM floor on opening day.

 

[Mr Fingers]

The idea of ignoring uneven frets as long as the instrument is passable at factory recommended specs is ludicrous. On an expensive guitar from a premier maker, it should play at factory spec AND have even frets so that the user can adjust action not to what the factory specifies, but to what they prefer. Frets that are of uneven height are unacceptable, period. A good guitar is adjustable from buzzy shredding lowness to stiff country twangy cleanness. AS to the cause, who knows -- but changes in climate should not cause measurably uneven frets in a guitar made properly of stable wood. Every freaking guitar ever made gets shipped somewhere to its purchaser. I would absolutely deal only with the maker on this. Stainless frets are for life, and I would want the builder to do the job. Also, as a human being, I think it's best to give the maker a chance to make it right, since we all make mistakes and sometimes stuff gets passed along unnoticed. By making an issue of it, you give Suhr a chance to come through, and it will likely lead to them scrutinizing their own QC system so that this doesn't recur. I disagree with those who either just blindly defend the maker and blame the buyer, or who say to just fix it yourself. That's (unintentionally) disrespectful and unhelpful to everyone. Suhr wants to maintain their well-earned reputation for quality, and you bought an expensive, great guitar. Turning the blind eye or doing aftermarket repairs helps with neither of those things. This is just my opinion, and I'm sure most readers think I'm too fussy, and that's fine. But Collings guitars are what they are because Bill Collings didn't let things slide, and I'm sure Suhr has the same commitment. Fender and Gibson, on the other hand...

 

[macmax77]

Hello!

I looseened the rod first because it had a huge backbow at first. And yes, I didntalk to customer service.

Indeed, there was a little buzzing on the low E string that could be heard through the amp, and I fixed a little by moving the saddle a little.

I sent it to Goya luthiers (probably the best here in Chile) but I’m afraid SS frets are not their thing, because now it fees raspy.

I just recieved a Fender EJ now and it played great straight out of the box. So it’s the first time I face such an issue.
I just want to know what I can do.

To be honest, I didn’t choose Suhr because of the superb QC, I know they are excelent quality products. But the reason I chose this one is because it’s vintage made and sounds exactly what I’m looking for. I love the model. If I sold this one, I would get another one of the same model.

And thanks fr your reply!

Dude, my sister in law is from Chile! So is my best friend!
Not to derail the thread....
Hope everything is good now!

 

[Raab90]

The idea of ignoring uneven frets as long as the instrument is passable at factory recommended specs is ludicrous. On an expensive guitar from a premier maker, it should play at factory spec AND have even frets so that the user can adjust action not to what the factory specifies, but to what they prefer. Frets that are of uneven height are unacceptable, period. A good guitar is adjustable from buzzy shredding lowness to stiff country twangy cleanness. AS to the cause, who knows -- but changes in climate should not cause measurably uneven frets in a guitar made properly of stable wood. Every freaking guitar ever made gets shipped somewhere to its purchaser. I would absolutely deal only with the maker on this. Stainless frets are for life, and I would want the builder to do the job. Also, as a human being, I think it's best to give the maker a chance to make it right, since we all make mistakes and sometimes stuff gets passed along unnoticed. By making an issue of it, you give Suhr a chance to come through, and it will likely lead to them scrutinizing their own QC system so that this doesn't recur. I disagree with those who either just blindly defend the maker and blame the buyer, or who say to just fix it yourself. That's (unintentionally) disrespectful and unhelpful to everyone. Suhr wants to maintain their well-earned reputation for quality, and you bought an expensive, great guitar. Turning the blind eye or doing aftermarket repairs helps with neither of those things. This is just my opinion, and I'm sure most readers think I'm too fussy, and that's fine. But Collings guitars are what they are because Bill Collings didn't let things slide, and I'm sure Suhr has the same commitment. Fender and Gibson, on the other hand...

Thanks for being unbiased. As a regular fractal audio forum user, I really appreciate it.
It's also funny that you mention both Gibson and Fender.

I have a Gibson SG 61' RI that after being stored/exhibited for almost 5 years, came all the way from the US to my place, and came without any buzz, and almost in tune. Original strings and all.
A week ago I got my Fender EJ (from this year), and it came without any buzzing and perfectly tuned.

I guess I was lucky though, because I have played Gibsons at FamaMusic (Their biggest LA dealer) and some of them really left a bad impression on me, to the point I would rather get an Epiphone.

That said, 61' Reissues were known to be a hit or miss, and I just hit the jackpot with it. And Fender EJs are known for being quality gutiars.

Thanks for your support.

Dude, my sister in law is from Chile! So is my best friend!
Not to derail the thread....
Hope everything is good now!

For some reason I'm extremely interested to know the story about your sister in law and your best friend. What do they study? Which city do they live in? Have you ever been to Chile?

And about my Suhr guitar, I've been talking to tech support. The employee said it was difficult to know whether the buzzing was normal or not without seeing nor hearing the guitar themselves, ans asked me if the buzzing was audible through the amplifier.

I told him it was indeed very audible through the amp, and offered to record some samples, where the buzzing is clearly audible both acoustically and going direct to an amp.

I also added the recording of a different guitar, and specified that both guitars measured 2mm of height at the 12th fret. The other guitar didn't buzz at all.

I will include the recorded samples at the end of the post. (Only the Tele)

The response was the following:

"Some buzz is to be expected when instruments are setup with action as low as ours and necks set with such little amounts of relief, from what you demonstrated it does not sound like anything out of the ordinary! We do everything we can here at the factory to ensure the most optimal playability from our instruments, but small nuances such as these are still to be expected."

FYI, when I recorded this track, relief was 1,5mm, and height was 2,2mm at the 12th fret on the low E string.

 

[Husky]

1.5mm of relief is out of control.
That is .059” It should be less than .010”, this guitar is not close to set up unless I don’t understand how you are measuring. How are you measuring string height too ?

I’m sorry but it is difficult for me to decifer in those clips what I am hearing. I can make any guitar buzz depending on the way I want to play. Remember, shorter scale length guitars won’t buzz as much.

I understood you brought it to a tech and had the frets leveled and now it is worse and rough? I would find another tech, or bring it back to him if you trust him, or talk to your dealer, I trust you used your closest Suhr dealer In Chile? Then we have an easy path to help you. Or if you get the guitar back to us I will personally go over the guitar and level and polish the frets.
Thanks
John

Thanks for being unbiased. As a regular fractal audio forum user, I really appreciate it.
It's also funny that you mention both Gibson and Fender.

I have a Gibson SG 61' RI that after being stored/exhibited for almost 5 years, came all the way from the US to my place, and came without any buzz, and almost in tune. Original strings and all.
A week ago I got my Fender EJ (from this year), and it came without any buzzing and perfectly tuned.

I guess I was lucky though, because I have played Gibsons at FamaMusic (Their biggest LA dealer) and some of them really left a bad impression on me, to the point I would rather get an Epiphone.

That said, 61' Reissues were known to be a hit or miss, and I just hit the jackpot with it. And Fender EJs are known for being quality gutiars.

Thanks for your support.



For some reason I'm extremely interested to know the story about your sister in law and your best friend. What do they study? Which city do they live in? Have you ever been to Chile?

And about my Suhr guitar, I've been talking to tech support. The employee said it was difficult to know whether the buzzing was normal or not without seeing nor hearing the guitar themselves, ans asked me if the buzzing was audible through the amplifier.

I told him it was indeed very audible through the amp, and offered to record some samples, where the buzzing is clearly audible both acoustically and going direct to an amp.

I also added the recording of a different guitar, and specified that both guitars measured 2mm of height at the 12th fret. The other guitar didn't buzz at all.

I will include the recorded samples at the end of the post. (Only the Tele)

The response was the following:

"Some buzz is to be expected when instruments are setup with action as low as ours and necks set with such little amounts of relief, from what you demonstrated it does not sound like anything out of the ordinary! We do everything we can here at the factory to ensure the most optimal playability from our instruments, but small nuances such as these are still to be expected."

FYI, when I recorded this track, relief was 1,5mm, and height was 2,2mm at the 12th fret on the low E string.

 

[sw686blue]

As you can see from the replies from John Suhr, the man is the epitome of classy customer service. Doesn't get any better than that folks.

 

[Raab90]

1.5mm of relief is out of control.
That is .059” It should be less than .010”, this guitar is not close to set up unless I don’t understand how you are measuring. How are you measuring string height too ?

I’m sorry but it is difficult for me to decifer in those clips what I am hearing. I can make any guitar buzz depending on the way I want to play. Remember, shorter scale length guitars won’t buzz as much.

I understood you brought it to a tech and had the frets leveled and now it is worse and rough? I would find another tech, or bring it back to him if you trust him, or talk to your dealer, I trust you used your closest Suhr dealer In Chile? Then we have an easy path to help you. Or if you get the guitar back to us I will personally go over the guitar and level and polish the frets.
Thanks
John

Hello!
Thanks for your reply.

On those clips, I'm playing a few strings with normal picking strength. I didn't exaggerate my playing at all. And IMO, the buzzing is very, very audible. Also, those clips were recorded direct into my interface. So that's how it would sound through the amp.

I understand that some buzzing is normal, but is it normal that it's audible through the amp?
I noticed it because I was playing a clean song, and when I let the notes ring, that metallic buzzing sounds you can hear in the recordings came up and made everyone shrill.

I measured the relief by placing a capo on the first fret, my fingers on the 17th fret or so, and measuring the height from the top of the fret to the bottom of the string using a stew mac string action gauge.
I then measured the action using the same tool, without pressing on the string anywhere, on playing position.

Carlos, the luthier I took it too, left the relief at 0.010, but I kept giving it more relief because it was buzzing horribly. It's currently at 0.020 right now, and still buzzes.

Carlos made the guitar actually playable, considering it was completely unplayable when I first got it. He didn't make it worse at all, it's just that the frets feel a little sandy now when I bend the strings, but tbh I don't remember if it felt like that too when I got it or not.

Also, there is no Suhr dealer in Chile. I got it from HumbuckerMusic, and taking the guitar to you might be too expensive considering I already spent 2.7k on it.

I guess I'll just have to live with it.

 

[Rich b in tempe]

Its basicly the same quack-quack-bla-bla- i recieved when i bought 2 maple /maple tele necks from a pacific- northwest neck maker who sprayed lacquer all over my new necks fret- board & doesnt polish it off- or level their necks SS frets- and there are high frets!!!! Buzzzz, what happened to your quality MR TURTLE?? Does the turtle logo mean we dont care?? Appearantly no!!

 

[Husky]

You don't have to live with it, you have a lifetime warranty but unfortunately when you buy out of country it is hard for us to deal with shipping.
The dealer in Chile is on our website, Rockit, even if they don't have something in stock they can order it.

Plugging direct in to an interface has nothing to do whatsoever with plugging in to an amp, the interface direct will have a LOT of unwanted high end and will accentuate any string rattle. Non of the high end is being filtered out like a speaker would.

This is guitar is not set up correctly, first you said .060" (1.5mm) now it is .020" That is still way to much and you are causing buzzing, it should be max .010" and adjust the action to get rid of buzzing to your taste 1/16" from the top of the last fret to the bottom of the string is where I'm happy but you can go a little higher, more relief causes buzzing around the 12th fret. The stainless frets should have absolutely no grindy feel to them when leveled correctly. If he needs help in how to deal with stainless he can contact us, they cant be leveled the same way as Nickel Silver.

I understand the shipping issue but we can only warranty including shipping when you buy from the closest dealer. Many times we get guitars back and they are simply not set up correctly. I would ask the "luthier" what is wrong, he should be able to figure it out if he leveled the frets properly there really shouldn't be any issue that can't be fixed in a setup. Unfortunately I have no idea what state the guitar is currently in or how the fretwork was done, was it done on a neck jig ? etc.....

Customer service is going to try and reconnect with you to see how we can resolve this, I want you to be happy and if you are comparing to another 25.5" scale length like a Fender with the same setup there should be no issue. Also be careful if you raised any single coil pickups since that will cause string buzz from the magnets.

If shipping is a nightmare you could also send me the neck (have the luthier take it off), I will go over it and the luthier can bolt it back on. But maybe wait for Customer Service before taking more action.

Thanks
John

Hello!
Thanks for your reply.

On those clips, I'm playing a few strings with normal picking strength. I didn't exaggerate my playing at all. And IMO, the buzzing is very, very audible. Also, those clips were recorded direct into my interface. So that's how it would sound through the amp.

I understand that some buzzing is normal, but is it normal that it's audible through the amp?
I noticed it because I was playing a clean song, and when I let the notes ring, that metallic buzzing sounds you can hear in the recordings came up and made everyone shrill.

I measured the relief by placing a capo on the first fret, my fingers on the 17th fret or so, and measuring the height from the top of the fret to the bottom of the string using a stew mac string action gauge.
I then measured the action using the same tool, without pressing on the string anywhere, on playing position.

Carlos, the luthier I took it too, left the relief at 0.010, but I kept giving it more relief because it was buzzing horribly. It's currently at 0.020 right now, and still buzzes.

Carlos made the guitar actually playable, considering it was completely unplayable when I first got it. He didn't make it worse at all, it's just that the frets feel a little sandy now when I bend the strings, but tbh I don't remember if it felt like that too when I got it or not.

Also, there is no Suhr dealer in Chile. I got it from HumbuckerMusic, and taking the guitar to you might be too expensive considering I already spent 2.7k on it.

I guess I'll just have to live with it.

 

[Raab90]

You don't have to live with it, you have a lifetime warranty but unfortunately when you buy out of country it is hard for us to deal with shipping.
The dealer in Chile is on our website, Rockit, even if they don't have something in stock they can order it.

Plugging direct in to an interface has nothing to do whatsoever with plugging in to an amp, the interface direct will have a LOT of unwanted high end and will accentuate any string rattle. Non of the high end is being filtered out like a speaker would.

This is guitar is not set up correctly, first you said .060" (1.5mm) now it is .020" That is still way to much and you are causing buzzing, it should be max .010" and adjust the action to get rid of buzzing to your taste 1/16" from the top of the last fret to the bottom of the string is where I'm happy but you can go a little higher, more relief causes buzzing around the 12th fret. The stainless frets should have absolutely no grindy feel to them when leveled correctly. If he needs help in how to deal with stainless he can contact us, they cant be leveled the same way as Nickel Silver.

I understand the shipping issue but we can only warranty including shipping when you buy from the closest dealer. Many times we get guitars back and they are simply not set up correctly. I would ask the "luthier" what is wrong, he should be able to figure it out if he leveled the frets properly there really shouldn't be any issue that can't be fixed in a setup. Unfortunately I have no idea what state the guitar is currently in or how the fretwork was done, was it done on a neck jig ? etc.....

Customer service is going to try and reconnect with you to see how we can resolve this, I want you to be happy and if you are comparing to another 25.5" scale length like a Fender with the same setup there should be no issue. Also be careful if you raised any single coil pickups since that will cause string buzz from the magnets.

If shipping is a nightmare you could also send me the neck (have the luthier take it off), I will go over it and the luthier can bolt it back on. But maybe wait for Customer Service before taking more action.

Thanks
John

I said I would deal with it because honestly the guitar is wonderful in every way, except for the damn buzz, which is just a manifestation of my bad luck at life. I would just buy another one if I had the money tbh. The buzzing isn't much compared to how great it feels and sounds overall.

Relief was 1.5mm when I did the recording. It's 0.020" now. Carlos (the luthier) set it up at 0.010" but it was buzzing excessively.

You suggested I raised the action a little to get rid of the buzz, starting from 1/16" (0,0625"-1.54mm). Action is currently 0.087" (2.2mm) which is a lot higher than 1/16.
Actually, Carlos left the relief at 0.010" and action at 0.0787" (2mm), which is still higher than 1/16, and buzzed like crazy.

Regarding the recording, I will run a high pass filter at 6-7kHz (typical speaker high cut off freq) to see if that rattling noise would still be noticeable, in an attempt to emulate the output of a speaker.
I will also try it using a real speaker.

I've been contacted by customer support already, and they suggested I take it to your shop.

Again, thanks for your constant support!

 

[Husky]

I said I would deal with it because honestly the guitar is wonderful in every way, except for the damn buzz, which is just a manifestation of my bad luck at life. I would just buy another one if I had the money tbh. The buzzing isn't much compared to how great it feels and sounds overall.

Relief was 1.5mm when I did the recording. It's 0.020" now. Carlos (the luthier) set it up at 0.010" but it was buzzing excessively.

You suggested I raised the action a little to get rid of the buzz, starting from 1/16" (0,0625"-1.54mm). Action is currently 0.087" (2.2mm) which is a lot higher than 1/16.
Actually, Carlos left the relief at 0.010" and action at 0.0787" (2mm), which is still higher than 1/16, and buzzed like crazy.

Regarding the recording, I will run a high pass filter at 6-7kHz (typical speaker high cut off freq) to see if that rattling noise would still be noticeable, in an attempt to emulate the output of a speaker.
I will also try it using a real speaker.

I've been contacted by customer support already, and they suggested I take it to your shop.

Again, thanks for your constant support!

OK, hopefully you can wind up in our area and we can look at it.
FYI as far going direct and applying filters you really need a brick wall filter.
Again if you are ever feeling the need send me the neck.
Thanks

 

[Teleplayer]

Whatever happened to OP's issue? Was it resolved?

 

[Sancho]

Whatever happened to OP's issue? Was it resolved?

John Suhr went out of his way to accomodate (see the posts right above) but OP doesn't seem to want to take him up on his various suggestions.

 

[Teleplayer]

John Suhr went out of his way to accomodate (see the posts right above) but OP doesn't seem to want to take him up on his various suggestions.

I'm simply wondering if his issue was resolved.

 

[Rafterman]

I started to hate threads like this one. You see the founder personally bending over to help the person.....even suggesting he would personally attend to the instrument and it just goes on and on and on...... It should be a TGP policy if you start something like this you MUST post the resolution.

 

[Raab90]

I started to hate threads like this one. You see the founder personally bending over to help the person.....even suggesting he would personally attend to the instrument and it just goes on and on and on...... It should be a TGP policy if you start something like this you MUST post the resolution.

I kinda felt pointed at by this.
Sorry if I got it wrong.

The guitar keeps buzzing no matter what I do, and I have to retune it each time I take it out of it’s case, but after tuning it properly, it becomes playable. Besides, I’m only using it for strumming chords and stuff ao the buzzing isn’t really a problem.

Mr. John offered me to take the guitar there to evaluate it and do whatever they have to do so it plays like it should, however, shipping the guitar back and forth would be around $360 total, which means that that the real price I paid for the new, ready to play axe would be $2650 + $360 = $3010. And it doesn’t feel right that I’m paying more and more for a new professional instrument.

It’s under warranty so I’ll just send it if it gets worse or if I ever have the need to send it.

Hope that closes my case.

Thanks!

 

[sw686blue]

Just remove the neck and ship it to John. Removing it is super easy and I'm betting John or his gang of professionals will make it perfect.

 

[Raab90]

Just remove the neck and ship it to John. Removing it is super easy and I'm betting John or his gang of professionals will make it perfect.

I have no doubt he will make it perfect.
But how can I be sure the neck will be installed properly here? Besides, the cost of opportunity makes it inneficient.
If that was the case, I would rather sell this one and just buy a new one.

Let me explain.

The premises:
1)The guitar met Suhr QC after leaving the facilities.
2)The guitar arrived at my place all bent and unplayable.
All
3)Other guitars have never come this bad.


Ergo, the hypothesis: The shipment messed up the guitar.

*The supporting assumption: This guitar is very sensitive to climate fluctuations, and it’s just an isoloated case of a suhr being all messed up, at the borders of the probability distribution.

The logics:

Sending the guitar would cost me $360, economy shipping. This raises the probability of the guitar suffering from weather damage all over again, rendering the whole process useless.

What if I sell this guitar?
I would have to sell it at used item price.
Since it just arrived a couple of weeks ago, and I have only played it a few times, no more than half an hour just to test it, I could sell it as almost new.

So Let’s say it would be fair to reduce the price only a little, just from the fact of having been “opened”... say, a fair $360 depreciation for opening the package.

Then I would sell the guitar at $2650-$360=$2290.

If i save up $360, i can make up to $2290+$360=$2650, and just buy a new one that won’t be hyper sensitive to climate fluctuations, will come assembled, and doesn’t involve the risk of spending $360 for a fix that probably won’t last.

Conclusion: both scenarios force me to spend $360 approx, but buying a new one mitigates the probabilities of getting another one that’s messed up.

(Remember that the probability of a wuality product being faulty is already small, so picking a faulty product exactly after picking a faulty product at first is even less likely by orders of magnitude)