Sun Lion Question

Jess 1971

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
4,457
I recently purchased a Sun Lion from Analogman. It's a great-sounding fuzz, and the Beano Boost sounds fantastic with my Marshalls. I love the pedal.

My question though is about volume. I'm not finding the fuzz face side to give much of a volume boost even when everything is cranked. The Beano side has a lot of volume, but the fuzz side does not. I got mine with General Electric Black vintage germ transistors with higher gain. I'm not super familiar with fuzz face circuits, so is this common? Or is it perhaps because I got mine with higher-gain transistors?

Thanks.


 
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killer blues

Member
Messages
4,334
I recently purchased a Sun Lion from Analogman. It's a great-sounding fuzz, and the Beano Boost sounds fantastic with my Marshalls. I love the pedal.

My question though is about volume. I'm not finding the fuzz face side to give much of a volume boost even when everything is cranked. The Beano side has a lot of volume, but the fuzz side does not. I got mine with General Electric Black vintage germ transistors with higher gain. I'm not super familiar with fuzz face circuits, so is this common? Or is it perhaps because I got mine with higher-gain transistors?

Thanks.
ge or si?5 i have a sunlion my fuzz is always on. if you want a boost add it after. snd use your volume knob or pedal to adjust from clean to dirt.
 

Big in Japan

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
2,307
A vintage-correct Fuzz Face often doesn’t get much louder than unity gain. I don’t own a Sun Lion, but I believe a Sun Face has an internal trim pot that acts as an input gain. Have you checked to see where that’s set? I think it’s there to emulate guitar volume knob cleanup. But if it was turned down enough, it might also be affecting output volume.
 

stagolee

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
3,023
I recently purchased a Sun Lion from Analogman. It's a great-sounding fuzz, and the Beano Boost sounds fantastic with my Marshalls. I love the pedal.

My question though is about volume. I'm not finding the fuzz face side to give much of a volume boost even when everything is cranked. The Beano side has a lot of volume, but the fuzz side does not. I got mine with General Electric Black vintage germ transistors with higher gain. I'm not super familiar with fuzz face circuits, so is this common? Or is it perhaps because I got mine with higher-gain transistors?

Thanks.
Sounds normal to me. Mine also maxes out around unity. The beano, on the other hand….
 

Jess 1971

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
4,457
Sounds normal to me. Mine also maxes out around unity. The beano, on the other hand….
Thanks. Yeah, the Beano kicks it into another level when engaged. Good to know that it's not uncommon for the fuzz face to max out around unity. Sounds like my pedal is behaving normally then.
 

Jess 1971

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
4,457
A vintage-correct Fuzz Face often doesn’t get much louder than unity gain. I don’t own a Sun Lion, but I believe a Sun Face has an internal trim pot that acts as an input gain. Have you checked to see where that’s set? I think it’s there to emulate guitar volume knob cleanup. But if it was turned down enough, it might also be affecting output volume.
Thanks. No, I have not yet opened up the pedal. Thanks for the suggestion. I'll take a look.
 

Tiny Montgomery

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
10,281
My two Sunfaces definitely get above unity gain. If the amp is breaking up (as fuzz faces are commonly run), it won’t come across as much of a volume boost, since the amp is out of headroom or close to it. Into a clean amp, the boost is more apparent.
 

Jess 1971

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
4,457
My two Sunfaces definitely get above unity gain. If the amp is breaking up (as fuzz faces are commonly run), it won’t come across as much of a volume boost, since the amp is out of headroom or close to it. Into a clean amp, the boost is more apparent.
Thanks. This is helpful, and makes perfect sense.

I'm really digging this pedal. Amazing-sounding fuzz, and absolutely killer boost! I don't know why I waited so long to finally pick one of these up.
 

Jess 1971

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
4,457
So I've had my Sun Lion for a while now, but I still feel like I'm getting the hang of it. One thing I've noticed is that if my guitar volume is up all the way, the pedal sounds like it's overloaded and sort of muffled. If I roll back the volume just a tick, like to maybe 8.5 down from 10.0, it sounds so much better. I don't mean the roll it back and get the glassy clean thing that Fuzz Faces do. I mean roll it back just a little and you still get the big roaring fuzz, just not so completely blown out as when the guitar volume is opened up all the way. Is this normal?

Also, I'm wondering that if I adjust the internal trimpot a little bit, would that lower the signal input so that I could keep the guitar volume up all the way and get the sound that I'm getting now with the guitar volume rolled down a little?

Also, on my pedalboard, I have both my Turbo Tuner and my Empress Compressor before the Sun Lion in the chain. Both pedals are true bypass, so there shouldn't be any issues there as long as both pedals are disengaged, correct?
 

stagolee

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
3,023
So I've had my Sun Lion for a while now, but I still feel like I'm getting the hang of it. One thing I've noticed is that if my guitar volume is up all the way, the pedal sounds like it's overloaded and sort of muffled. If I roll back the volume just a tick, like to maybe 8.5 down from 10.0, it sounds so much better. I don't mean the roll it back and get the glassy clean thing that Fuzz Faces do. I mean roll it back just a little and you still get the big roaring fuzz, just not so completely blown out as when the guitar volume is opened up all the way. Is this normal?

Yep - same experience with mine anyway. My bliss factory is also the same way - I tend to keep guitar volume from 3-8 or so. This is with humbuckers.

Also, I'm wondering that if I adjust the internal trimpot a little bit, would that lower the signal input so that I could keep the guitar volume up all the way and get the sound that I'm getting now with the guitar volume rolled down a little?

Maybe - I have never played with this trimmer but I suppose the “clean” knob is set up to do exactly what you describe.

Also, on my pedalboard, I have both my Turbo Tuner and my Empress Compressor before the Sun Lion in the chain. Both pedals are true bypass, so there shouldn't be any issues there as long as both pedals are disengaged, correct?
That’s how I understand it, but I guess I’ve never had even a TB pedal in front of mine.
 

tubekingsley

Member
Messages
3,886
Also, I'm wondering that if I adjust the internal trimpot a little bit, would that lower the signal input so that I could keep the guitar volume up all the way and get the sound that I'm getting now with the guitar volume rolled down a little?
Turning the internal trimpot clockwise, will achieve this.
Having a couple of true bypass pedals before the Sun Lion shouldn’t have much, in any affect on the sound. It would be more likely to adversely affect guitar volume knob clean up, if you were seeking pristine cleans, but I keep a wah and Univibe before Sunface, it still cleans up, super clean.The actual/specific true bypass pedals you place before it, could make a difference
 
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Amish Mafia

Member
Messages
345
Any booster pedal is amp dependent, if you have a low watt amp, the boost won't be as substantial as like a Fender Twin. I remember saying my Dumkudo didn't boost my Aiken Tomcat that much, guys would say it has a tone of volume. Later I tried the pedal in a powerful amp and the boost was insane.
 

bibir

Member
Messages
1,168
So I've had my Sun Lion for a while now, but I still feel like I'm getting the hang of it. One thing I've noticed is that if my guitar volume is up all the way, the pedal sounds like it's overloaded and sort of muffled. If I roll back the volume just a tick, like to maybe 8.5 down from 10.0, it sounds so much better. I don't mean the roll it back and get the glassy clean thing that Fuzz Faces do. I mean roll it back just a little and you still get the big roaring fuzz, just not so completely blown out as when the guitar volume is opened up all the way. Is this normal?

Also, I'm wondering that if I adjust the internal trimpot a little bit, would that lower the signal input so that I could keep the guitar volume up all the way and get the sound that I'm getting now with the guitar volume rolled down a little?

Also, on my pedalboard, I have both my Turbo Tuner and my Empress Compressor before the Sun Lion in the chain. Both pedals are true bypass, so there shouldn't be any issues there as long as both pedals are disengaged, correct?

1. Yes that's normal, the best fuzz sound comes from dialing those guitar volume. Why do you need 10 on guitar all the time anyway..

2. Why don't you play with it? Best is to tweak and use your ears rather than asking for description what that trim does.

3. For me I never ever put anything before my fuzz face. I did experiment with my sunface, even a TB pedal before it, changed the way the pedal cleans up, a little bit only but it's different for my ears. I always put my fuzz as a VIP pedal upfront so it directly interacts with my guitar volume and dynamics
 

Jess 1971

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
4,457
Turning the internal trimpot clockwise, will achieve this.
Having a couple of true bypass pedals before the Sun Lion shouldn’t have much, in any affect on the sound. It would be more likely to adversely affect guitar volume knob clean up, if you were seeking pristine cleans, but I keep a wah and Univibe before Sunface, it still cleans up, super clean.The actual/specific true bypass pedals you place before it, could make a difference
Super helpful. Thank you.
 

BearBryan

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
2,589
Also, on my pedalboard, I have both my Turbo Tuner and my Empress Compressor before the Sun Lion in the chain. Both pedals are true bypass, so there shouldn't be any issues there as long as both pedals are disengaged, correct?
If there is no whining/squealing and it still cleans up with the volume knob on the guitar then you are good.
 

Jess 1971

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
4,457
If there is no whining/squealing and it still cleans up with the volume knob on the guitar then you are good.
Thanks. I've spent a fair amount of time today playing with my Sun Lion and a healthy dose of plate reverb, and yeah, I think I'm good. Still tinkering with the each guitar's volume knob to find their respective sweet spots, but it's all good when you get there.
 

Boxy

Member
Messages
233
A vintage-correct Fuzz Face often doesn’t get much louder than unity gain. I don’t own a Sun Lion, but I believe a Sun Face has an internal trim pot that acts as an input gain. Have you checked to see where that’s set? I think it’s there to emulate guitar volume knob cleanup. But if it was turned down enough, it might also be affecting output volume.
Yeah they call it a clean gain and will mount it on the pedal if you request it and now for my daily prayer please lord let me live long enough to be next in line to purchase my King of Tone.
 




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