Super Champ: Ragin Cajun or Lil' Buddy?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by carljoensson, Sep 21, 2008.

  1. carljoensson

    carljoensson Member

    Messages:
    767
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2006
    Hi,
    I've asked questions before in two recent threads concerning the Fender Super Champ (80's Rivera design) I recently bought. The threads: Just scored a Super Champ...and When is speaker breakup desirable?

    All facts considered (including cost and availability) I have decided that my choice of replacement speakers stands between Eminence Ragin Cajun and Eminence Lil' Buddy. I have seen both suggested for the Super Champ in different threads. Both pretty great speakers I'm sure - but for what user and for which amp?

    The reason for my indecisiveness is this:
    1. I'm worried the Lil Buddy will be too dark and steal the glittery Fender clean.
    2. I'm worried the Ragin Cajun will make the Super Champ too trebly and harsh.

    Maybe I'm exaggerating this decision? When listening to the clips on the Eminence website I actually think I prefer the Ragin Cajun over the Lil Buddy - but I guess it must depend on the amp driving it too?

    So, I'm asking for second opinions - especially from people who know the Super Champ very well.
    How bright do you find it stock?
    Can you put in a hemp cone speaker without making it too dark?
    Does it get to bright with the Ragin Cajun?

    I'm looking forward to playing clean/semiclean - classic Fendersound. I play only singlecoil guitars, lately mostly a Telecaster in bridge position with the treble rolled off a bit.

    As always I'm grateful for all and any input!

    Thanks,

    Carl
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2008
  2. Bluewail

    Bluewail Tone curmudgeon Silver Supporting Member

    Messages:
    1,579
    Joined:
    May 2, 2003
    Location:
    Pacifica, CA
    Rajin Cajun.

    The amp is not that bright and could use the punch in the bottom end that the RC would give you.
     
  3. phatster

    phatster Member

    Messages:
    733
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2007
    Location:
    Sinus HELL
    I use the RC, a very good choice,never tried the Buddy.
     
  4. carljoensson

    carljoensson Member

    Messages:
    767
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2006
    Hi,
    Thanks both of you for chiming in! I agree with the need for the bottom end, which is why I am chosing between these two. According to the Eminence tone guide they both seem to have "aggressive" low end response - one delivers it chunky and the other fat/round - I'm unsure about the difference there.

    I'm counting: One vote that it's not that bright! Any more opinions on the Fender Super Champ?

    Thanks,
    Carl

    The descriptions of each speaker is from the Eminence Tone Guide.

    Ragin Cajun 10”
    Low end response: Aggressive
    Low end shape: Chunky
    Midrange response: Moderate
    Midrange shape: Crisp
    High end response: Aggressive
    Volume/Power: Loudest
    Overall coloration: Very loud, touch sensitive and responsive with nice bell sounding top end and a little bite.
    Break-up mode: Medium
    Up to 75 watts
    Suitable for: Lead/Rhythm Guitar American Rock, Blues, and Country


    Lil’ Buddy 10”
    Low end response: Aggressive
    Low end shape: Fat/Round
    Midrange response: Moderate
    Midrange shape: Warm
    high end response: Subdued
    Volume: Louder
    Overall coloration: A clean and full tone, slow to break-up, but crunchy when driven. Smoother and less defined than many 10 guitar speakers. Break-up mode: Slow
    Up to 50 watts
    Suitable for: Lead/Rhythm Guitar, Harmonica Jazz, Rock, and Blues.


    If anybody else is interested there are clips at Eminence here.
     
  5. 62Tele

    62Tele Supporting Member

    Messages:
    5,309
    Joined:
    May 1, 2005
    I'm on the same quest for what is virtually 1/2 of the same amp - just picked up a Champ II and it needs a speaker. I had a Super Champ a few years ago and back the I put a Weber F150 in it and it sounded pretty good. These amps have a little more midrange bark to my ears so I'm thinking the Lil' Buddy might polish the tone a little. The speaker came recommended from a friend with good ears. The cabs are very shallow, so anything that gooses the bass would be a good thing.

    Are you going to run an extension?
     
  6. carljoensson

    carljoensson Member

    Messages:
    767
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2006

    Hi,
    I'm looking at the Eminence only because I haven't found any dealer in Europe selling Weber at ok prices. I've read posts and reviews from a few guys that have had Lil Buddy's installed and been really happy. I'm just unsure whether they're after the same sound as me.

    I'm also unsure whether the difference between Ragin Cajun and Lil Buddy is pretty big or really small. I think the Eminence soundclips are pretty different - even more so overdriven than clean.

    I don't plan to run an extension. I have a bigger amp too (Vibrolux) so I see Super Champ as a portable alternative for smaller venues. But I guess I'm after the same sound as the Vibrolux (more or less).

    Thanks for chiming in,

    Carl
     
  7. 62Tele

    62Tele Supporting Member

    Messages:
    5,309
    Joined:
    May 1, 2005
    What I wish I could find is a Fane alnico 10 - I have thed 12 and love it. You might still be able to find one in Europe. Very good speakers, transparent yet warm, alnico characteristics, takes distortion beautifully, very well made. As a matter of fact if you find TWO and want to ship stateside...:cool:
     
  8. carljoensson

    carljoensson Member

    Messages:
    767
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2006
    Those are yet a bit more in price, am I right? I think I read something about Fane somewhere... hmm. I don't know so much about the differences about Alnico and ceramics. But asking people with a similar taste in guitars and music I've heard that they seem to prefer ceramics. /C
     
  9. 62Tele

    62Tele Supporting Member

    Messages:
    5,309
    Joined:
    May 1, 2005
    Well, with the current exchange, the Fane prices may be competitive on your side of the pond. I like ceramic speakers too, but when you get a 100 watt version things change a little. I like the Fane ceramics too - they were a fav at Holland amps, and as for the alnicos, I've had discussions over the years with Tony Bruno, Mike Holland, Billy Penn and Gerald weber to name a few and all of them raved about these speakers. Just haven't been flavor of the day in the guitar world and I'm not sure why.
     
  10. champster

    champster Member

    Messages:
    860
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    Location:
    Oceanside/CA
    I have a Champ II and have a Reverend 1030 installed. Great sounding speaker in these amps. I have tried a Weber 10SA which sounded ok, but I really don't like the sound of Weber speakers. The RC should sound good in the Champ II.
     
  11. demp

    demp Member

    Messages:
    2
    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2008
    I have a SC and have used both speakers. To me the RC was too bright, so I swapped for a LB, and I personally like the LB in the SC better. It's smoother and still retains the "chime" on the clean channel. I don't think the LB does high gain as well, but to me it does that fine and is great for clean/bluesy crunch.
     
  12. carljoensson

    carljoensson Member

    Messages:
    767
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2006
    Thanks for the input!
    Any others?/C
     
  13. bbarnard

    bbarnard Member

    Messages:
    3,632
    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2003
    Location:
    FL
    I have a Ragin' Cajun in my Super Champ. It will get bright but it sounds awesome. I typically run the amp with the treble on 2-3 and the bass almost all the way up when playing it by itself. With an extension cab (2x10 Emenince Legend Alnicos) I up the treble some and roll the bass off. When I hear Tomo's clips of all the Eminence speakers on TGP I really liked the way the Lil' Buddy sounds but on everything but the clean example on the Eminence site you posted it sounds like there is a blanket over the Lil' Buddy.

    Those clips make me glad I went with the Ragin' Cajun.
     
  14. carljoensson

    carljoensson Member

    Messages:
    767
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2006
    Thanks bbarnard!
    There's nothing worse than talking about sound - but it's really good to hear about your settings and stuff. It gives me a lot better picture of how it is useable.
    I agree with your comments on the soundclips! /Cheers, Carl
     
  15. phatster

    phatster Member

    Messages:
    733
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2007
    Location:
    Sinus HELL
    Carl,,,,,I failed to disclose that I use a Rivera Lo-Botton with all my small combo's.IF anyone wants a very warm bass you must get one of these babies....since all the bass tones are going through the Rivera your lil Champ will SCREAM!!
     
  16. carljoensson

    carljoensson Member

    Messages:
    767
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2006
    Hi phatster,
    I'm not familiar with the Lo-Botton but I'll check it out. I have a nice little pedalboard too, though.

    Thanks/Carl
     
  17. slartibartfast

    slartibartfast Member

    Messages:
    66
    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2008
    Location:
    Budgewoi Australia
    Hi Carl

    I've had a superchamp for a long time and wont ever sell it. Pound for pound its the best amp I've ever seen. I've had a few speakers in it, the original (which was nothing special) a noname eminence (that was also no big deal), a jensen alnico reissue (that was just awful! Pulled it out straight away) a weber f150t (ok, but flubbed in the bass) and have settled on a celestion g10v. The best of the lot, but its time for a change. I just started a thread on this topic on my local board that has some interesting replies. Heres the URL( http://www.guitargear.net.au/discussion/index.php?topic=13822.0). Im expecting THIS

    http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=280276792219

    to arrive any day. Some old jensen, dont really know what it is.

    Its a great amp. In my experience RCA, NU, or raytheon 6v6s are the best, and I put a sylvania 5751 in the preamp. Do whatever youve got to to get a stock of 6c10s. They havent been made for 40 years, and are getting scarce. Despite what anybody says Ive found old stock tubes to be miles better than new production. Oh yes, theres a trick too. Sometimes the reverb will stop working ( about once every few years ). When mine did this I'd retube and mostly itd be ok again. The problem was however corrosion on the rca plugs that go to the reverb tank. All you need to do is twist the plugs around a bit and youre good to go again ( I live in a pretty humid and hot place--Australia, on a spit of land between 2 lakes and the sea, all within walking distance )

    Keep in touch, Id like to know how you go with speakers, and I'll give you any info I dig up. Congrats on getting a truly legendary amp!

    Brett
     
  18. Creamy

    Creamy Member

    Messages:
    541
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2006
    Location:
    California
    The one I played came with a Jensen MOD. It was articulate on the clean chanel and at lower volumes. Could not handle much bass though.
    Replaced it with a Weber 10F150. Great speaker! That said, if I replace the speaker again it will be with the Weber 10A150. Its a bit more aggressive and has an earlier break up. The amp has more mids than other Fender amps of this era and I keep the treble down below 4.
     
  19. lp144

    lp144 Supporting Member

    Messages:
    427
    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2005
    Location:
    San Francisco Bay Area
  20. carljoensson

    carljoensson Member

    Messages:
    767
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2006
    Hi there,
    Sorry I missed all the new replies. After much thinking, too much really, I decided to order a Lil Buddy. It took ages to arrive. Mounting it was easy, I just took the reverb tank out. I wanted to do a recording before and after the speaker change - but failed with the input levels so both clips distorted.

    Anyway, in short: The fear that the amp would turn out too dark was exaggerated a lot in my head. It's still a bright and glittery Fender sound with the Lil Buddy. The low end is richer, overall it is slightly louder. And I have noticed that my favourite settings has changed from Bass 8, Treble 2 to somewhere where I have both at around 6.

    My Superchamp still needs some service so I haven't bothered bringing it to band rehearsals yet. All testing has therefore been done at "home levels".

    I think it sounds great - and it actually might replace the Vibrolux as my gigging amp. We'll see.

    /C
     

Share This Page