Synergy modular thread

Elric

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4,676
Yeah, I thought it was a bit odd that he set the lower (blue) channel to higher gain than the upper (red) channel a few times. On some of the modules, it doesn't matter, since the two channels are identical. But on others, if there is a difference, the top/red channel is always the one with higher gain and/or compression. I'm fairly certain that the modules he showed in this video have similar channels. I think...
Noticed it too. Brian's stuff is really enjoyable and I like his YT channel and his podcast but I think it is pretty common for Youtubers to demo stuff without deep research since they have to be timely with content and typically go through a lot of gear demos quickly. Like you said, most of these modules it is not a big deal but some of the others it'd be a pretty big mistake. :)

I wondered on the Shirley... the IRL amp has a gain switch, so I figured the Red corresponds to a higher gain setting on that switch than the blue? Seems like BE and HBE are just single voicing though so maybe the whole thing is just expressed across the knob sweep.

Anyway I would be interested to hear any observations... I am researching Marshally modules this week... DS, Plexi, Metroplex... I tend to be more of a Plexi person but that DS has some serious flavor and it has me wondering. I had the 800 and am regretting flipping it now, too. Sheesh! Gotta prioritize my acquisition list/strategy.
 

chrishurley

Silver Supporting Member
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674
The Plexi module has that handy Vol I and Vol II control for each channel, just like the normal and brilliant volumes on an old Marshall. Comes in really handy for dialing in the overall EQ even before touching the EQ knobs.
Such a useful feature. I really think all modules could benefit from this kind of thing. Having early tone control lets you adjust the attack, feel, flub and openness that you can't change with a later EQ. The later EQ is important so that you can tailor the tone after the significant distortion effects.
 

Serious Poo

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Such a useful feature. I really think all modules could benefit from this kind of thing. Having early tone control lets you adjust the attack, feel, flub and openness that you can't change with a later EQ. The later EQ is important so that you can tailor the tone after the significant distortion effects.
It's also one of the features on the Deliverance module that makes it sound so great.
 

baron55

Member
Messages
366
Sorry for quoting myself, but maybe this is useful to others.

Regarding the bright switch, it seems that the manual may be misleading. I went back and looked at the owner's manual for the Bogner Ecstasy Red and Blue pedals and compared that with the Synergy module manual.

Pedal Manuals:
B1 = high frequency boost
B2 = boosted midrange and high frequency

Synergy Module Manual:
B1 = acts like a bright switch on an old Fender Twin
B2 = even brighter than B1

Sure seems like the switches work as described on the Bogner pedals. Which once again makes me wonder what trained ape wrote these Synergy manuals?


And while we are at it, the manual is completely silent on the "internal switches" I've read about in this mega thread. Can anyone explain what the switches are? What they do?

The B1, and B2 switches are simplify bright caps switched in over the gain potentiometer controls. The act as high pass filters and are less active the more the gain is turned up. B1 cuts more mids and bass meaning you get a brighter tighter sound. B2 lets more mids and bass through which results in more gain. The brightness on both is the same, but B2 sounds less bright because there is more mid to low mid range present balancing out the tone more.



Here is what the internal "Air" Switches and 101B/100B do.

In 2004 Bogner added a 2.7K resistor inline with a .22uF cap and wired across the 10K 3rd gain stage cathode resistor. This resulted in a gain boost above 744HZ. Basically added more searing mids and highs. (Mark Cameron came out with a mod that changed the values to 10K/1.0uF which resulted in a lower gain boost but the frequency cut was at 120hz)

On the Synergy model the 101B/100B switch does something similar. It switches in a 2.7K resistor and a .1uF cap in parallel with the 10K cathode resulting in a gain boost above 1.6K when selected in the 101B mode.

The Structure Switch on Ecstacy's switches in a 1.5uF cap that is in parallel with a 4.7K resistor in parallel to the 4.7K cathode resistor resulting in a 2.4K/1.5uF resistor cap combo. This increases the overall gain of that stage and both Blue and Red Channels. On the Synergy preamp, the "Air" switch switches in only the 1.5uF bypass cap. The Schizo switch determines if the cathode value of the 2nd gain sage is 4.7K or 2.4K.

The Schizo switch also selects the Boost control (Ecstacy amp control) when set in the modern setting.

In the Real Ecstacy amp, the first gain stage uses a 820 ohm cathode resistor with a .68 bypass cap (Very JMP inspired) This is not the case with the Synergy Modules. Instead they only give you the three options which none match the real Ecstacy. The tell you to use the 1.8K/1.0uf combo which is a SLO 100 value.

I modded my Synergy XTC to real Bogner specs on the 101B/100B switch to get a closer tone to the 101B amp.

Since the Syn-1 and Syn-2 and amp heads only offer the 1.5K/22uf, 2.7K/.68uF, and 1.8K/1.0uF combos some modules will be more original than others. Also what isn't know, is what the plate resistor valves are of V1 which also makes a big difference.
 

RMosack

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
5,810
Oops! The Synergy manual has a second page. For some reason, my browser wasn't showing that page! They actually show and describe the two inner switches. My bad!
 

RMosack

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
5,810
The B1, and B2 switches are simplify bright caps switched in over the gain potentiometer controls. The act as high pass filters and are less active the more the gain is turned up. B1 cuts more mids and bass meaning you get a brighter tighter sound. B2 lets more mids and bass through which results in more gain. The brightness on both is the same, but B2 sounds less bright because there is more mid to low mid range present balancing out the tone more.



Here is what the internal "Air" Switches and 101B/100B do.

In 2004 Bogner added a 2.7K resistor inline with a .22uF cap and wired across the 10K 3rd gain stage cathode resistor. This resulted in a gain boost above 744HZ. Basically added more searing mids and highs. (Mark Cameron came out with a mod that changed the values to 10K/1.0uF which resulted in a lower gain boost but the frequency cut was at 120hz)

On the Synergy model the 101B/100B switch does something similar. It switches in a 2.7K resistor and a .1uF cap in parallel with the 10K cathode resulting in a gain boost above 1.6K when selected in the 101B mode.

The Structure Switch on Ecstacy's switches in a 1.5uF cap that is in parallel with a 4.7K resistor in parallel to the 4.7K cathode resistor resulting in a 2.4K/1.5uF resistor cap combo. This increases the overall gain of that stage and both Blue and Red Channels. On the Synergy preamp, the "Air" switch switches in only the 1.5uF bypass cap. The Schizo switch determines if the cathode value of the 2nd gain sage is 4.7K or 2.4K.

The Schizo switch also selects the Boost control (Ecstacy amp control) when set in the modern setting.

In the Real Ecstacy amp, the first gain stage uses a 820 ohm cathode resistor with a .68 bypass cap (Very JMP inspired) This is not the case with the Synergy Modules. Instead they only give you the three options which none match the real Ecstacy. The tell you to use the 1.8K/1.0uf combo which is a SLO 100 value.

I modded my Synergy XTC to real Bogner specs on the 101B/100B switch to get a closer tone to the 101B amp.

Since the Syn-1 and Syn-2 and amp heads only offer the 1.5K/22uf, 2.7K/.68uF, and 1.8K/1.0uF combos some modules will be more original than others. Also what isn't know, is what the plate resistor valves are of V1 which also makes a big difference.
Thanks for all of this. Very informative.



The Schizo switch determines if the cathode value of the 2nd gain sage is 4.7K or 2.4K.
Do you know which setting (V, M, C) gets which resistor?


The Schizo switch also selects the Boost control (Ecstacy amp control) when set in the modern setting.
What "Boost control" actually mean?
 

baron55

Member
Messages
366
Thanks for all of this. Very informative.




Do you know which setting (V, M, C) gets which resistor?



What "Boost control" actually mean?

The "M" setting you have the 2.4K because that's the most gain.

The Boost Control on the real amps switched in a 100K resistor with a .001uF cap in parallel. With the boost switch OFF this cap was switched to ground right before the 2nd stage input cutting gain by dumping a lot of signal to ground. Turning the boost switch ON removed this resistor cap combo, resulting in a gain boost.

The Schizo switch control the function of this With he Schizo switch in the "M" setting the Boost is ON and you have the 2.4K resistor in play on the second gain stage.

With the Schizo switch in the "V" position, the Boost is OFF and the cathode cap is 2.4K

I the "C" position the Boost is OFF and the stage is using the 4.7K
 

RMosack

Silver Supporting Member
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5,810
The "M" setting you have the 2.4K because that's the most gain.

The Boost Control on the real amps switched in a 100K resistor with a .001uF cap in parallel. With the boost switch OFF this cap was switched to ground right before the 2nd stage input cutting gain by dumping a lot of signal to ground. Turning the boost switch ON removed this resistor cap combo, resulting in a gain boost.

The Schizo switch control the function of this With he Schizo switch in the "M" setting the Boost is ON and you have the 2.4K resistor in play on the second gain stage.

With the Schizo switch in the "V" position, the Boost is OFF and the cathode cap is 2.4K

I the "C" position the Boost is OFF and the stage is using the 4.7K
Awesome. So is this about right?

MModern2.4KBoost ON80s
VVintage2.4KBoost OFF60s or 70s?
CClassic or Custom?4.7KBoost OFF70s or 60s?
 

blujosh

Member
Messages
421
hey all, i'm looking for a single module that can do medium-high gain Marshall dirt on one channel and Fenderish cleans on the other.

is the BE-BB the way to go? or is there another module that would fit that bill?

is the BE closer to Super Lead Plexi (1959) levels of gain or can it get into the JCM800 end of the spectrum?

i've also seen a few folks express that they weren't a fan of BE channel of that module. if you're one of them, could you elaborate on why and which module you'd choose (or chose) instead for med-high gain Marshallesque tones?
 

Serious Poo

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hey all, i'm looking for a single module that can do medium-high gain Marshall dirt on one channel and Fenderish cleans on the other.
The BMan is the closest I can think of for what you are looking to do. Early Marshall amps were based on the Bassman circuit, with a few part changes to reflect what was available in the U.K. at that time.

FWIW if I were starting out and wanted a single module for great basic clean and dirty sounds, I’d start with a Deliverance. It’s voiced more in the Hiwatt/Vox camp but it’s an insanely good sounding preamp.

Hope that helps
 

Elric

Member
Messages
4,676
hey all, i'm looking for a single module that can do medium-high gain Marshall dirt on one channel and Fenderish cleans on the other.

is the BE-BB the way to go? or is there another module that would fit that bill?

is the BE closer to Super Lead Plexi (1959) levels of gain or can it get into the JCM800 end of the spectrum?

i've also seen a few folks express that they weren't a fan of BE channel of that module. if you're one of them, could you elaborate on why and which module you'd choose (or chose) instead for med-high gain Marshallesque tones?
I think the BE side of that module rips and the clean is a good pedal platform but not Fenderish (IMHO). The BE is pretty high gain but plexi-ish, kind of modded plexi levels rather than stock. I tend to run it high (say 2 o'clock) though because I feel that is its forte' I do not really love it in the lower (like say 9-10 o'clock) range.
 

Kelly

Member
Messages
3,443
hey all, i'm looking for a single module that can do medium-high gain Marshall dirt on one channel and Fenderish cleans on the other.

is the BE-BB the way to go? or is there another module that would fit that bill?

is the BE closer to Super Lead Plexi (1959) levels of gain or can it get into the JCM800 end of the spectrum?

i've also seen a few folks express that they weren't a fan of BE channel of that module. if you're one of them, could you elaborate on why and which module you'd choose (or chose) instead for med-high gain Marshallesque tones?
The be has more gain than a stock jcm800. It's a great circuit if you're into high gain Marshall tones.
 

Jason_86_951

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
2,382
I figured out the fizz on my Deliverance module.

The module accentuates the frequency of string/fret buzz. One of my guitars needs a truss tweak from the weather change and is buzzing a touch when the strings are hit hard. The fizz doesn't show itself in any of my other amps/modules. The Deliverance just happens to enhance that frequency range a bit and makes it just audible behind the note.

I have bat ears too so that doesn't help.......I hear too much sometimes!
 

blujosh

Member
Messages
421
I think the BE side of that module rips and the clean is a good pedal platform but not Fenderish (IMHO). The BE is pretty high gain but plexi-ish, kind of modded plexi levels rather than stock. I tend to run it high (say 2 o'clock) though because I feel that is its forte' I do not really love it in the lower (like say 9-10 o'clock) range.
thanks for the feedback (no pun intended). i'm curious about your statement about the BE gain. are you saying it only sounds good at higher "modified" plexi gain levels, vs lower/traditional plexi gain levels? if so, can you elaborate on what you don't like about it at lower gain?
 
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Elric

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4,676
thanks for the feedback (no pun intended). i'm curious about your statement about the BE gain. are you saying it only sounds good at higher "modified" plexi gain levels, vs lower/traditional plexi gain levels? if so, can you elaborate on what you don't like about it at lower gain?
Like @Kelly had mentioned it is a pretty high gain circuit by default so as the gain turns down, it has a little more "hair" on it than I would want from a lower gain plexi tone. It is probably personal taste; some people might love it. I am usually playing w/ hot humbuckers. A legit single coil pickup would probably tame it.

It's versatile for sure, though... You could easily use BB/BE as virtual three channels with a pedal:

BB - Clean
Pedal+BB - Crunch
BE - Lead/Gain

The BB sounds really good with an OCD pedal or similar. You can boost the BE side with a classic TS9 clean boost (0 gain, leve and tone to taste) or similar, too; it is not wildly over the top or anything (like say the Uberschall).
 

blujosh

Member
Messages
421
Like @Kelly had mentioned it is a pretty high gain circuit by default so as the gain turns down, it has a little more "hair" on it than I would want from a lower gain plexi tone. It is probably personal taste; some people might love it. I am usually playing w/ hot humbuckers. A legit single coil pickup would probably tame it.

It's versatile for sure, though... You could easily use BB/BE as virtual three channels with a pedal:

BB - Clean
Pedal+BB - Crunch
BE - Lead/Gain

The BB sounds really good with an OCD pedal or similar. You can boost the BE side with a classic TS9 clean boost (0 gain, leve and tone to taste) or similar, too; it is not wildly over the top or anything (like say the Uberschall).
thanks again for all the info.

i was hoping to be able to dial the BB side for a really bright scooped clean tone.
with that in mind, do you this module could be used as a 3-ch setup this way?:

BB - Clean
BE - Crunch
BE+boost/OD - Lead/High Gain

or do you think the BE side is just too hairy/high gain for that?
 

thechamp

Member
Messages
579
If there was one tip I could give all Syn mod players to get the most out of their modules it is this:

TURN YOUR POWER AMP VOLUME WAY UP!

If the power amp volume is low, all of these modules will be too gainy.
 

Elric

Member
Messages
4,676
If there was one tip I could give all Syn mod players to get the most out of their modules it is this:

TURN YOUR POWER AMP VOLUME WAY UP!

If the power amp volume is low, all of these modules will be too gainy.
FWIW, also probably worth mentioning is that there are a lot of ways to monitor your preamp signal (including the DI out which is really nice). So I hear my modules in numerous contexts, direct out, w/ modeled power amp and IR through monitors or in DAW, through power amp cab rigs (including multiple power amps and a reactive load attenuator), etc. This kind multi-use case thing gives you a good idea what is the module/preamp and what is the power amp. It is definitely worthwhile (and fun) to experiment! :)
 
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