• TGP is giving away a Strat, Tele, and Jazzmaster. Click Here for full details.
    Click Here to upgrade your account and enter today!

Synergy modular thread

rumbletone

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
6,682
Wow that's great looking rig there. fairly compact and really everything you need to get tons of all tube tones with top notch Eventide effects to boot. I'm sure that Eventide Eclipse sounds amazing.

1) I cant tell from the photo:

1) Which Synergy modules are in that rack?

2)What speaker is in the Avatar?

Years ago I saw Ernie Isley in concert. The whole show was a Jimi Hendrix tribute with Isley playing all Hendrix songs. He was using the Randall incarnation of the modular amp and he sounded absolutely great. From what everyone is saying the Synergy modules are a big improvement over the Randall modules and also an improvement over the old Egnater modules, so yea I'm interested. Plus Steve Vai going over to Synergy doesn't hurt either. I'm a fan of his too.
Speaker is an Alnico Gold (cab is open back). This rig was for a non-rock gig.

Modules are all Egnater dual channel (this was pre-Synergy). Here I was likely using:

T/D
VX
Bman
COD

... though depending on the setlist that night I may have been using another high gain module, such as the EG3/4 or SL2.
 

rumbletone

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
6,682
Wow. Those numbers aren’t even close.

1.) 1.5k / 22 uF
2.) 2.7K / .68 uF
3.) 1.8K / 1 uF

Amp: 820 / .68uF

I can kind of see why they suggest #3, but #2 is in play as an alternate.
What is on the plates though? IIRC some of the earlier modular used 220k (or perhaps it was 200k?) on the first triode, which would warrant a different cathode resistor for similar bias, no?

And which model of Ecstasy are you referring to? The schematics I’m seeing have 820/.680 only on the first triode (which I assume in Synergy is not in the module itself but in the host?), 2.35/2.2uF on 2nd, and cold clipper on the 3rd (same as 2nd of 2203).
 

RMosack

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
5,297
What is on the plates though? IIRC some of the earlier modular used 220k (or perhaps it was 200k?) on the first triode, which would warrant a different cathode resistor for similar bias, no?

And which model of Ecstasy are you referring to? The schematics I’m seeing have 820/.680 only on the first triode (which I assume in Synergy is not in the module itself but in the host?), 2.35/2.2uF on 2nd, and cold clipper on the 3rd (same as 2nd of 2203).
No idea. I was replying to another post.
 

baron55

Member
Messages
357
What is on the plates though? IIRC some of the earlier modular used 220k (or perhaps it was 200k?) on the first triode, which would warrant a different cathode resistor for similar bias, no?

And which model of Ecstasy are you referring to? The schematics I’m seeing have 820/.680 only on the first triode (which I assume in Synergy is not in the module itself but in the host?), 2.35/2.2uF on 2nd, and cold clipper on the 3rd (same as 2nd of 2203).

The Ecstacy's never used 220K on the plates only 100K. The Host tube in the SYN-1, SYN-2 and the amps are the first gain stage or input gain stage. The cathode switch on the modules is simply a switch for the cathode values of the Input stage. The cathode switch simply switches the cathode /cap combos on the host unit. The modules do not have the cathode and cap resistor valves.

The Ecstacy Module has the 2nd, 3rd, 4th gain stages and the cathode follower for the tone stack.

As for the plate resistor on the input stage (host unit) that's a good question, because many of these modules representing the preamps use different plate resistors (the real amps that is). The SLO uses a 220K on the first gain stage plate, and the Friedman stuff also uses larger plate resistors. I am also curious what the other gain stage in the hots preamp tube is for. Maybe I need to trace out my SYN-1 to find out.


Some of the Synergy modules will be dead nuts on like the amp because the preamps are Identical, but many others will be close, because they are not the same circuit.
 

hdiddy

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,499
Back to the extasy, I bought and like but also have a mod done by salvation audio on an old Randall . I think that module is line with the original extasy I had , this goes to baron
Did you notice a big difference in the tone of the module when you did your mod? Did it work for the red and blue channel
 

baron55

Member
Messages
357
Back to the extasy, I bought and like but also have a mod done by salvation audio on an old Randall . I think that module is line with the original extasy I had , this goes to baron
Did you notice a big difference in the tone of the module when you did your mod? Did it work for the red and blue channel


The Mods I did on my Synergy module are directly related to the "Air" switch and the "100B/101B" switch.

On the real XTC amp the first gain stage is a 100K plate over a 820R/.68 cathode resistor combo. This gives a lot of low mids and very fat saturated signal, the .68 cathode cap helps shelf the bass of around 432 Hz so the sound is not flubby or messy.

Also On the real amp Bogner uses a .0047uF coupling cap after the first stage in conjunction with the gain pots to cut bass below the 70Hz range.

On the Synergy system, the cathode resistor and cap value let too much bass in (1.8K/1.0uF) and most likely the coupling cap as well (don't know the value). I noticed with the Synergy module it was too congested sounding which means too much bass is getting into the second gain stage.

The "AIR" switch on the Synergy module switches in a 1.5uF bypass cap to switch in and out. Switched in, this gives a gain boost above 115 HZ when using the Modern Setting which makes the cathode resistor valve effectively 2.35K. On the real amp this is part of the Structure switch. That being said the value works great on the real amp. But on the module, since their is too much bass in the first place I changed it. So the mod I did was to replace the 1.5Uf cap with a .68 film cap which now cuts the bass in the 254 HZ range. This tightened up the distortion and made the sound more open and clear.


In 2004, Bogner added a 2.7K resistor inline with a .22uF resistor and paralleled it across the 3rd gain stage cathode resistor. This increased the gain of the 3rd stage above 744 HZ. Many felt that it was a a little too much and messy. Mark Cameron came out with a mod to use a 10K resistor in line with a 1.0uF cap which gave a slight gain boost above 115 HZ, the was much better received as you got the gain boost without loosing the tight character of the amp.


Note the 3rd gain stage is only used by the red channel.

Well the 100B/101B switch switches in a 2.7K resistor inline with a .1uF cap on the 3rd gain stage similar to the 2004 and after amps, this results in a gain boost above 1.6K which is a lot of upper mids and highs. I think this may have been done to compensate for the compromise of not having the first gain stage the same as the real amp and trying to cut some bass. I didn't like this at all, it was too much gain in the wrong frequency range.

I did the Cameron mod with the 10K/1.0uF combo, this seemed to hit the spot. It is now much closer to the real thing.


These mods were more to tweak the RED channel specifically
 

hdiddy

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,499
Thank you but that is the exact description of the difference
I just need to find someone to do it
It sounds like makes a difference
 

funkyfoe

Member
Messages
19
Hey y'all. Forgive me if this has been discussed at length . I'm considering messing around with popping some different tubes in some modules just to experiment. Have any of you tried more high quality tubes or NOS? If so, did you notice changes/improvements?
 

Powderfinger

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
11,159
Anybody with the Morgan module finding the volume to be way too low? I have 8 modules and the Morgan is by far the lowest. Really out of whack with the others. Otherwise sounds great.
 

Serious Poo

Powered by Coffee
Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
6,514
Anybody with the Morgan module finding the volume to be way too low? I have 8 modules and the Morgan is by far the lowest. Really out of whack with the others. Otherwise sounds great.
Nope. The module has very little bass, so try turning it way up. For example, I run mine with B=3pm, M=12:30pm, T=1:30pm. Also, I run it at very low gain and the volume turned to about 3pm.
 

shood

Member
Messages
631
Are any of you with multiple Syn units (2+ Syn-2s or Syn-1s) running two modules simultaneously in a stereo set-up? I'm considering such a set-up, but would worry about phase issues when switching between modules or channels.
 

Bentayuk

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
4,463
I'm not going back to Synergy yet, but I am going back to Randall MTS this week. Basically a step closer to Synergy again.
 

kingbobalou

Member
Messages
349
Speaker is an Alnico Gold (cab is open back). This rig was for a non-rock gig.

Modules are all Egnater dual channel (this was pre-Synergy). Here I was likely using:

T/D
VX
Bman
COD

... though depending on the setlist that night I may have been using another high gain module, such as the EG3/4 or SL2.
Which begs the question, is your rock rig modular too or a different thing altogether?
 

rumbletone

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
6,682
Which begs the question, is your rock rig modular too or a different thing altogether?
My main rock rig is currently based on a head I built myself (in Bruce Egnater’s amp build seminar .... so there’s a modular connection), but the modular is my backup and typically includes an SL2 and/or EG3/4. SL2 was my main hard rock tone for several years, and I still love it.
 

Gasp100

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
21,102
Thinking about ordering new tubes for my Dirty Shirley module. I have yet to put some volume on it but the module sounds a tad raspy, I bought it used so would like to start fresh. Is it easy to change tubes? Any recommendations for tubes?
 

Blix

Norwegian
Silver Supporting Member
Messages
25,241
It's really easy to change tubes @Gasp100 , just remove a couple screws for the cage over the electronics. I'm not up to speed on what's hot in 12AX7's, so hopefully someone can chime in.
 

Jason_86_951

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
2,343
Are any of you with multiple Syn units (2+ Syn-2s or Syn-1s) running two modules simultaneously in a stereo set-up? I'm considering such a set-up, but would worry about phase issues when switching between modules or channels.
I did this for a bit while I had (2) SYN-2s. I didn't care for it much, it combined together in a mush of mismatched frequencies with the modules I was using (XTC, UBER, VH4, DEL). This was with a tube power amp and (2) 2x12 cabs a ways apart.

Too much of a good thing I guess. Clarity was lost.
 

Elric

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
4,493
I did this for a bit while I had (2) SYN-2s. I didn't care for it much, it combined together in a mush of mismatched frequencies with the modules I was using (XTC, UBER, VH4, DEL). This was with a tube power amp and (2) 2x12 cabs a ways apart.

Too much of a good thing I guess. Clarity was lost.
Yes, I have always been disappointed by the blended amps at the same time in a live rig thing. I know folks do it in the studio with success and I know some legends (SRV I think) were well known for doing it live but it is always not worth the effort when I have tried it in a live rig. It feels much harder to manage and dial in for me, I'm better off with a 'channels' paradigm, personally.
 

shood

Member
Messages
631
Yes, I have always been disappointed by the blended amps at the same time in a live rig thing. I know folks do it in the studio with success and I know some legends (SRV I think) were well known for doing it live but it is always not worth the effort when I have tried it in a live rig. It feels much harder to manage and dial in for me, I'm better off with a 'channels' paradigm, personally.
Thx. Jason and Elric. Your observation make intuitive sense to me. I think the example that always draws my interest on this approach is Cantrell's typical use of two amps to yield a blended high gain tone. In the end, probably not worth the effort / issues.
 




Trending Topics

Top