Talisman Reverb placement help needed

wiltel24

Member
Messages
1,046
So where are you Talisman users placing this pedal on your boards? At the very end right before the amp, or somewhere else? Thinking about pulling the trigger and getting one, but want some info first. Appreciate any insights.
 

jimijimmyjeffy

Senior Member
Messages
12,633
I'm one who believes that, in terms of normal musical criteria (rather than a desire for a special effect), the reverb goes best last in every respect possible. The closer you can get to having the reverb being in the studio, the better. That means in the loop if possible, or if not last before the amp.

In an attenuator loop would be better than in the amp loop, as that is 'closer to the studio'.

Having said all that, the one very real downside of the Talisman, which I otherwise love and brag about often here, is that it is inconsistent in its ability to work in amp loops, even instrument level, and even state of the art Metro loops. I have no idea why, and correspondence with the company just repeated the information I am sharing with you, essentially. No one will tell you, "this is the problem, and this is the possibility for improving it now or in the future". So save yourself the frustration of contacting them on this issue. Also they are dealing with a profound personal loss of their leader currently, so it's great they are even still making things. Best wishes to all of them.

So you may be forced to use it in front, but last would still be best.

With totally clean playing, the mud associated with having the reverb too early would be less of a problem. With dirty playing, the Talisman works better in front than most other units due to the special controls being able to dial out the potential mud, mostly.

But ideally, there would be a reverb that sounded as true to a plate, which you could always use in loops. Unfortunately, that reverb does not yet exist. If it ever does, I will look at buying that.

All told, in my opinion, the state of the art is still primitive with reverbs. There is only one true plate sound, only one, and the Talisman is it, as of this date. So I cannot recommend anyone buy another product. People like me are stuck with that one. They did the best job of anyone giving you that 60s-70's recorded sound. Don't let anyone tell you a Strymon (and I'm a Strymon fanboy, sorta) or Wet, or any other TGP heralded unit can do that or even come close to it -- if you want an accurate plate sound. I listened to every demo, and tried a few. Everyone else just fails. Are the tones pretty? Absolutely, in some cases. The Strymons and Wet make beautiful sounds. Are they close to an accurate plate sound from 60s records? No way.

Plate reverb is really the best for dirty playing being an option (a huge big deal), as it stays out of the way, is still potentially beautiful, and isn't muddy. Spring sucks for classic rock sounds, and so do most hall and room sounds. So this still is the only reverb pedal on the market as far as I am concerned. Some day a better one will come along for loop playing, and the day that happens I'm getting it.

I have been using mine in the loop at home, but am having problems with it. I am now getting my amp checked by the amp builder in California to rule out problems with my state of the art instrument level Metro loop. No better loop currently exists in the boutique amp market, so I have a sneaking suspicion the loop was not the problem, and rather it was the unit.

I can use it in the loop at very low volumes at home. But when I turn it up I get a lot of noise and hum, almost as loud as the musical signal, related to the master volume level or circuit, as soon as the master goes past 1. That probably means I will be forced to take it out of the loop. But I want to make sure, and rule out other problems.

If you contact them on this, which I have, Catilinbread will just tell you sometimes it works with loops, and sometimes it doesn't, and you just have to try it to see. We just have to deal. I personally find this problem very frustrating, as I simply cannot have the sound I need and want because of it. It's the only weak link in my fantastic new rig, which I spent more on than anything I've ever bought for myself that is not a car..

I'm dissapointed in reverb pedals, generally. If you're a shoegazer, there are a lot of great options, ice effects, infinite pads, and shimmers galore. Octaves and synthesizer sounds. Real pretty...

But if you want to get that basic, vintage recorded classic rock sound by using an accurate plate effect, you still have some serious compromises to deal with. Sorry.
 
Last edited:

wiltel24

Member
Messages
1,046
I'm one who believes that, in terms of normal musical criteria (rather than a desire for a special effect), the reverb goes best last in every respect possible. The closer you can get to having the reverb being in the studio, the better. That means in the loop if possible, or if not last before the amp.

In an attenuator loop would be better than in the amp loop, as that is 'closer to the studio'.

Having said all that, the one very real downside of the Talisman, which I otherwise love and brag about often here, is that it is inconsistent in its ability to work in amp loops, even instrument level, and even state of the art Metro loops. I have no idea why, and correspondence with the company just repeated the information I am sharing with you, essentially. No one will tell you, "this is the problem, and this is the possibility for improving it now or in the future". So save yourself the frustration of contacting them on this issue. Also they are dealing with a profound personal loss of their leader currently, so it's great they are even still making things. Best wishes to all of them.

So you may be forced to use it in front, but last would still be best.

With totally clean playing, the mud associated with having the reverb too early would be less of a problem. With dirty playing, the Talisman works better in front than most other units due to the special controls being able to dial out the potential mud, mostly.

But ideally, there would be a reverb that sounded as true to a plate, which you could always use in loops. Unfortunately, that reverb does not yet exist. If it ever does, I will look at buying that.

All told, in my opinion, the state of the art is still primitive with reverbs. There is only one true plate sound, only one, and the Talisman is it, as of this date. So I cannot recommend anyone buy another product. People like me are stuck with that one. They did the best job of anyone giving you that 60s-70's recorded sound. Don't let anyone tell you a Strymon (and I'm a Strymon fanboy, sorta) or Wet, or any other TGP heralded unit can do that or even come close to it -- if you want an accurate plate sound. I listened to every demo, and tried a few. Everyone else just fails. Are the tones pretty? Absolutely, in some cases. The Strymons and Wet make beautiful sounds. Are they close to an accurate plate sound from 60s records? No way.

Plate reverb is really the best for dirty playing being an option (a huge big deal), as it stays out of the way, is still potentially beautiful, and isn't muddy. Spring sucks for classic rock sounds, and so do most hall and room sounds. So this still is the only reverb pedal on the market as far as I am concerned. Some day a better one will come along for loop playing, and the day that happens I'm getting it.

I have been using mine in the loop at home, but am having problems with it. I am now getting my amp checked by the amp builder in California to rule out problems with my state of the art instrument level Metro loop. No better loop currently exists in the boutique amp market, so I have a sneaking suspicion the loop was not the problem, and rather it was the unit.

I can use it in the loop at very low volumes at home. But when I turn it up I get a lot of noise and hum, almost as loud as the musical signal, related to the master volume level or circuit, as soon as the master goes past 1. That probably means I will be forced to take it out of the loop. But I want to make sure, and rule out other problems.

If you contact them on this, which I have, Catilinbread will just tell you sometimes it works with loops, and sometimes it doesn't, and you just have to try it to see. We just have to deal. I personally find this problem very frustrating, as I simply cannot have the sound I need and want because of it. It's the only weak link in my fantastic new rig, which I spent more on than anything I've ever bought for myself that is not a car..

I'm dissapointed in reverb pedals, generally. If you're a shoegazer, there are a lot of great options, ice effects, infinite pads, and shimmers galore. Octaves and synthesizer sounds. Real pretty...

But if you want to get that basic, vintage recorded classic rock sound by using an accurate plate effect, you still have some serious compromises to deal with. Sorry.

Thanks for the reply. I don't have a loop on my current amp, but good to know about the possible issues. I was more concerned about how dirt, fuzz and a Belle Epoch would sound in front of it. The few reverb pedals I have tried tend to have these weird fizzy artifacts I couldn't dial out when used with overdrive and fuzz faces for some reason. The Talisman sounds like the best option for a plate reverb pedal right now.
 
Last edited:
Messages
4,214
I'm one who believes that, in terms of normal musical criteria (rather than a desire for a special effect), the reverb goes best last in every respect possible. The closer you can get to having the reverb being in the studio, the better. That means in the loop if possible, or if not last before the amp.

In an attenuator loop would be better than in the amp loop, as that is 'closer to the studio'.

Having said all that, the one very real downside of the Talisman, which I otherwise love and brag about often here, is that it is inconsistent in its ability to work in amp loops, even instrument level, and even state of the art Metro loops. I have no idea why, and correspondence with the company just repeated the information I am sharing with you, essentially. No one will tell you, "this is the problem, and this is the possibility for improving it now or in the future". So save yourself the frustration of contacting them on this issue. Also they are dealing with a profound personal loss of their leader currently, so it's great they are even still making things. Best wishes to all of them.

So you may be forced to use it in front, but last would still be best.

With totally clean playing, the mud associated with having the reverb too early would be less of a problem. With dirty playing, the Talisman works better in front than most other units due to the special controls being able to dial out the potential mud, mostly.

But ideally, there would be a reverb that sounded as true to a plate, which you could always use in loops. Unfortunately, that reverb does not yet exist. If it ever does, I will look at buying that.

All told, in my opinion, the state of the art is still primitive with reverbs. There is only one true plate sound, only one, and the Talisman is it, as of this date. So I cannot recommend anyone buy another product. People like me are stuck with that one. They did the best job of anyone giving you that 60s-70's recorded sound. Don't let anyone tell you a Strymon (and I'm a Strymon fanboy, sorta) or Wet, or any other TGP heralded unit can do that or even come close to it -- if you want an accurate plate sound. I listened to every demo, and tried a few. Everyone else just fails. Are the tones pretty? Absolutely, in some cases. The Strymons and Wet make beautiful sounds. Are they close to an accurate plate sound from 60s records? No way.

Plate reverb is really the best for dirty playing being an option (a huge big deal), as it stays out of the way, is still potentially beautiful, and isn't muddy. Spring sucks for classic rock sounds, and so do most hall and room sounds. So this still is the only reverb pedal on the market as far as I am concerned. Some day a better one will come along for loop playing, and the day that happens I'm getting it.

I have been using mine in the loop at home, but am having problems with it. I am now getting my amp checked by the amp builder in California to rule out problems with my state of the art instrument level Metro loop. No better loop currently exists in the boutique amp market, so I have a sneaking suspicion the loop was not the problem, and rather it was the unit.

I can use it in the loop at very low volumes at home. But when I turn it up I get a lot of noise and hum, almost as loud as the musical signal, related to the master volume level or circuit, as soon as the master goes past 1. That probably means I will be forced to take it out of the loop. But I want to make sure, and rule out other problems.

If you contact them on this, which I have, Catilinbread will just tell you sometimes it works with loops, and sometimes it doesn't, and you just have to try it to see. We just have to deal. I personally find this problem very frustrating, as I simply cannot have the sound I need and want because of it. It's the only weak link in my fantastic new rig, which I spent more on than anything I've ever bought for myself that is not a car..

I'm dissapointed in reverb pedals, generally. If you're a shoegazer, there are a lot of great options, ice effects, infinite pads, and shimmers galore. Octaves and synthesizer sounds. Real pretty...

But if you want to get that basic, vintage recorded classic rock sound by using an accurate plate effect, you still have some serious compromises to deal with. Sorry.
I agree with this. I have never bonded with a reverb pedal, though admittedly I haven't tried them all. I always seem to hear some nasty digital artifact in the decay. I'm fortunate to have access to a real, honest-to-goodness, perfectly healthy, vintage EMT plate. After hearing it do its thing on my recordings and mixes, it was the final nail in the coffin for me.

The only faux-plate I ever heard that came anywhere near close is the EMT plate samples in the Altiverb plug-in. We A/B'd it in the studio against the EMT and it was hard to hear a difference. It's expensive as all get-out, however.

I'll have to check out the Talisman next and see how it stacks up.
 

jimijimmyjeffy

Senior Member
Messages
12,633
Please do and report back. The quickest way to do this is to first listen to Radar Love by Golden Earring, which has wonderful and subtle plate reverb, then listen to the ProGuitar Shop demo of the Talisman, where the guitar player just nails the same sound on the same tune. And know that wasn't just an accident.

Then there is another good youtube demo where the guy plays in front of a cranked Marshall (not hard to find) and plays part of How Many More Times by Zep, the section where the plate is so prominent. So listen to the original Zep tune first, which is drenched in plate reverb, then that demo. Those two examples should give you a general idea how close that pedal gets.

You get digital artifacts too with the Talisman, just fewer of them -- and you can dial many of them out with the controls. You can bring back the lushness sometimes once you dial out the mud. The lushness of the fully maxed effect tone tends to negate most of the digital artifacts. So you work on that balance with it. To get a great sound, you have to tweak every control perfectly. But at least it can be done. You also have to find the perfect predelay time to get that natural sounding, non-muddy balance.

I predict you will find it comes very close to the plug in computer plate you liked, at a fraction of the cost.
 
Last edited:

wiltel24

Member
Messages
1,046
Please do and report back. The quickest way to do this is to first listen to Radar Love by Golden Earring, which has wonderful and subtle plate reverb, then listen to the ProGuitar Shop demo of the Talisman, where the guitar player just nails the same sound on the same tune. And know that wasn't just an accident.

Then there is another good youtube demo where the guy plays in front of a cranked Marshall (not hard to find) and plays part of How Many More Times by Zep, the section where the plate is so prominent. So listen to the original Zep tune first, which is drenched in plate reverb, then that demo. Those two examples should give you a general idea how close that pedal gets.

You get digital artifacts too with the Talisman, just fewer of them -- and you can dial many of them out with the controls. You can bring back the lushness sometimes once you dial out the mud. The lushness of the fully maxed effect tone tends to negate most of the digital artifacts. So you work on that balance with it. To get a great sound, you have to tweak every control perfectly. But at least it can be done. You also have to find the perfect predelay time to get that natural sounding, non-muddy balance.

I predict you will find it comes very close to the rack mounted plate you liked, at a fraction of the cost.
How is the Talisman at 18 v, if you have tried it that way?
 
Messages
4,214
Please do and report back. The quickest way to do this is to first listen to Radar Love by Golden Earring, which has wonderful and subtle plate reverb, then listen to the ProGuitar Shop demo of the Talisman, where the guitar player just nails the same sound on the same tune. And know that wasn't just an accident.

Then there is another good youtube demo where the guy plays in front of a cranked Marshall (not hard to find) and plays part of How Many More Times by Zep, the section where the plate is so prominent. So listen to the original Zep tune first, which is drenched in plate reverb, then that demo. Those two examples should give you a general idea how close that pedal gets.

You get digital artifacts too with the Talisman, just fewer of them -- and you can dial many of them out with the controls. You can bring back the lushness sometimes once you dial out the mud. The lushness of the fully maxed effect tone tends to negate most of the digital artifacts. So you work on that balance with it. To get a great sound, you have to tweak every control perfectly. But at least it can be done. You also have to find the perfect predelay time to get that natural sounding, non-muddy balance.

I predict you will find it comes very close to the plug in computer plate you liked, at a fraction of the cost.
I almost don't want to watch the PGS video with Andy demoing this pedal. He could demo a First Act rig and make me GAS for it! I'll be sure to listen closely to those examples. Sometimes I wish I were an ambient soundscape, or shoegaze player. I'd be spoiled for choice with all these stunning reverb pedals they have now. But after dealing with a real plate.....nothing quite measures up!
 




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