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TGP Collective Super Chops Thread (Course Started 02/01/2010)

john beddoe

Member
Messages
477
I remember this book being mentioned by my teachers when i studied at music school.

The main criticism given of the book given by a teacher i admired was that it was too tempo focused, rather ideas focused. It put me off attempting to try it....
 

kuschnjo

Member
Messages
16
Well, the title says its about chops rather than melodic improvisation.
There are many paths to reach the same goal. This is just one of those.
 

BenoA

Member
Messages
1,772
Cool thread but do I have to read the 56 pages to get starded??? Just kidding :)

I downloaded the book, printed the instructions and will give it a try!
 

Kappy

Member
Messages
14,033
I know, imagine have to read 56 pages to get the rudiments of a demanding discipline like Jazz guitar!

;)
 

kuschnjo

Member
Messages
16
My program got to a halt after week two.
I underestimated the chord voicings and are unable put down the week 3 backing track in any tempo.
I'll try to get back it ASAP.
 

mhz88

Member
Messages
505
I just started this too.. On the pages before project 1-a do everyone else just skim through? Seems like familiar info,?
 

Kappy

Member
Messages
14,033
I think the voicings are a guide/suggestion, not required for the course. I think I got more out of learning the voicings than I did from the single note playing. ;) But I do remember being slowed down by the voicings myself. It was a bitch! But toward the end, I started to get pretty comfortable with (most of) them. (There's a couple I still can barely grip.)

Good luck!
 

mhz88

Member
Messages
505
I think the voicings are a guide/suggestion, not required for the course. I think I got more out of learning the voicings than I did from the single note playing. ;) But I do remember being slowed down by the voicings myself. It was a bitch! But toward the end, I started to get pretty comfortable with (most of) them. (There's a couple I still can barely grip.)

Good luck!
You are absolutely right! What did u for the solo exercise?

Theres a guy here who did it differently
 

kuschnjo

Member
Messages
16
Just started week 20 of the course. My only regret is that I did not know about the course 10 years earlier. It did tremendous things to my playing.
Currently I'm thinking what to look after Superchops - any suggestions?

I'd like to look more into the chords/voicings and how to apply them, but any suggestion is valid.
 
Messages
69
Just started week 20 of the course. My only regret is that I did not know about the course 10 years earlier. It did tremendous things to my playing.
Currently I'm thinking what to look after Superchops - any suggestions?

I'd like to look more into the chords/voicings and how to apply them, but any suggestion is valid.
Just wanted to say congrats on completing the course! Seems like it's been a long time since anyone has made it all the way. i don't have any suggestions other than keep doing the same program with different songs.

I couldn't agree more about it making me a better player. Following chord changes without the benefit of rests for 3, 10 min. sessions everyday forces you into a fight or flight mode. I think the brain adapts by learning to think faster. Scales, chords and arpeggios require less thought so it's easier to improvise melodies. It's just a great mental workout!
 

newb3fan

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,351
Resurrecting a super old thread here on superchops (pun intended) because I'm about to embark on the journey. For those that have done this, how critical are playing the chords exactly as he's outlined them in the progressions? The reason I ask is that there are some voicings that I literally cannot do. I have smallish hands and anything that is a 5th fret to 1st fret type of voicing (like D-7 in ex. 1-A) is just not going to come out clearly for me. Thoughts?

It's reassuring to see that this course was hard for others. I played through a couple of laps of the progression for 1-A yesterday and boy did it sound sucky for most of it!
 

Ed DeGenaro

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
22,450
Resurrecting a super old thread here on superchops (pun intended) because I'm about to embark on the journey. For those that have done this, how critical are playing the chords exactly as he's outlined them in the progressions? The reason I ask is that there are some voicings that I literally cannot do. I have smallish hands and anything that is a 5th fret to 1st fret type of voicing (like D-7 in ex. 1-A) is just not going to come out clearly for me. Thoughts?

It's reassuring to see that this course was hard for others. I played through a couple of laps of the progression for 1-A yesterday and boy did it sound sucky for most of it!
Done it a long time ago and occasional refresh.
I always was particularly fond of learning some shapes I didn't. So I played them as written but with substitute fingerings.
For example that D7#11 he's fond off I'd thumb the A string then index ring pinkie middle as oppossed to the sugested middle index ring pinkie middle index(barred)
 
Messages
936
< For those that have done this, how critical are playing the chords exactly as he's outlined them in the progressions?

To quote Howard Roberts
"There is however, a more efficient way to learn. It is based on the often heard but little appreciated rule that states: a person learns what he wants to learn when he wants to learn it. This is of the utmost importance in the selection of material. You must know exactly what you are working on and exactly why you want it. You must see how it fits into your present body of musical knowledge and how and where you will use it once you master it. Therefore, whenever possible, work only with information which has a useful purpose now."

So I'm taking the basic Super Chops approach and applying it to playing country guitar, since that's what interests me at the moment. I don't have any use at present for the jazzy chords in the course.
 
Messages
4
Note: The course has already started. A small handful of us (that I'm aware of) are doing the course. We are mostly just updating this thread with our progress as we work through the course. You are welcome to join in at any time, though. Or, for posterity, you can read up on what some of us went through while going through the course. Hopefully it's helpful information to someone.

######

This other thread reminded me of the cool book by the late, great Howard Roberts called "Super Chops: Jazz Guitar Technique in 20 Weeks". I tried this when I went to GIT but I never finished. I've always wanted to complete the course, if only to say I did it, but also because I believe I could learn a lot about playing over changes by following the recommended (fairly rigid) guidelines and sticking to them.

Basically what the program is is this: Commit to 50 minutes a day doing this course, 6 days a week. It requires recording yourself playing a set of fairly complicated jazz chord changes for 10 straight minutes, then playing non-stop eighth notes (later triplets) over what you've recorded three times (30 minutes of playing over the changes continuously every day). There is a reason for playing only eighth notes, it's explained in the book. He suggests you use his chord voicings for the course, which are pretty hellish voicings if you're not used to them, but they're also quite rich and sumptuous! The changes are played mostly in whole notes (4 beats per chord), but some progressions have chords changing every beat (IIRC). The changes appear to start harder --several key changes per song-- (I think the first song is "Cherokee") and they progressively get simpler/more vamp-y towards the end of the course. He also recommends using at least size .012 strings on your guitar.

So, in the spirit of New Years' resolutions that will actually improve our tone (by making us better players), how's about some of us (who dare) collectively take this course on? In this thread we can share our experiences while going through the course. We can also share tips about how to approach the changes, etc. This type of interaction and sharing the process with each other can also help those who are participating through the rough patches of the course, and hopefully we'll all come out the other end achieving something cool and more importantly becoming better players. No competition is implied here, there's no need to compare tempos, and no pressure to share your recordings (though I'd love to hear some of you play through these changes!). It's more about encouraging each other to do the course as instructed, as difficult/painful as it can sometimes be (judging from my own personal experience trying it on my own for a couple weeks). Interested? Read on....

NOTE: This is entirely cost free, the book is linked to below, so you don't even have to buy the book. It's all about your own personal commitment to the program. The course isn't for everyone, and some might think it's rather silly. It's also quite a commitment, so I'd suggest anyone considering it take a look at the book and see if it's for them.

What you'll need:
1) a copy of the book (note: it's free, so you don't have to buy the book --which is long out of print anyway, just download from the link.)
2) some type of recorder to record yourself playing the changes so you can play your melodies/solos over them (nothing elaborate or expensive, it could be an old cruddy cassette recorder, it could be a looping pedal, it could be your home studio, you pick!)
3) a metronome/click for recording/keeping a steady tempo
4) a timer (like a countdown egg timer, digital are best, the wind-up kind are really inaccurate, YMMV)
5) a journal (nothing elaborate) to keep track of your tempos. You can just print out the pages in the book with the journal on them (each week has a journal in the book). Since the course started, I've just been using this thread as my journal. Again, whatever works for you.
6) The hard part: the ability to commit to at least 50 minutes a day working on the lessons/drills of the course.

WARNING: You need to be able to read a little bit of standard notation (mostly for getting the chord voicings off the page), and it helps to know how to read song forms, like 1st and 2nd endings, D.C. Al Capo, D.C. Al Fine, etc. If you need help with these, ask here, it's what this thread is for.

If you think you could get something out of a course like this and would like to join us in taking the course on, chime in below. I look forward to it!

Thanks for reading! And good luck!

Dave

P.S. The introductory pages of the book are quite good, so if you don't think the course is for you, do yourself a favor and read those pages. It's like a mini jazz guitar improv course.


##########
# Bonus - Matching Tunes to the Progressions in this Course!

# If you know which tunes are in progressions not mentioned below, please do share. It will help a lot!
##########
Weeks 1 & 2 = Cherokee AKA Koko
Weeks 3 & 4 = Angel eyes
Weeks 5 & 6 = Baubles, bangles and beads (?)
Weeks 8 & 9 = All the things you are
Weeks 10 & 11 = Blues for Alice


I know this post is about 9 years old, but I wanted to reach out in the long-shot chance that someone perhaps still has this document and would be willing to share it. I am willing to re-post and host this file so that future generations looking to gain insight from this book can again find it.

Any help in tracking down this long lost SuperChops file would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
-C
 

Ed DeGenaro

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
22,450
I know this post is about 9 years old, but I wanted to reach out in the long-shot chance that someone perhaps still has this document and would be willing to share it. I am willing to re-post and host this file so that future generations looking to gain insight from this book can again find it.

Any help in tracking down this long lost SuperChops file would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
-C
It's on scribd
 
Messages
4
It's on scribd
Thank you very much for the pointer to check scribd. I hadn't seen any results in web-searches to look there, only this forum and the irealb.com forums had turned up. I was able to successfully download a copy, so again, mucho thanks!!

-C

Including the link for any future searchers as well:
Superchops
 
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Messages
4
Cool that @lookinforthebook is bumping this up. Guitar Player showed this a few days ago? I was wondering if it was similar to what this post is about.7
https://www.guitarplayer.com/technique/supercharge-your-improv-chops-in-just-20-weeks
That is exactly the post I was reading that inspired me to start searching for this text. Finding a physical copy on Amazon for $325 caused me to do a little more web-searching, which is where I found this forum discussing the manual. I'd be totally fine to purchase a copy, but that seems a bit much... and then I found mention of it having been pdf'd...and it also being out of print...and thankfully, as was just pointed out to me, it is located on scribd.
 

Kappy

Member
Messages
14,033
Bummer. Villanova took down my personal web site. I thought that would be there forever. Here's the file that was posted, which looks to be the same one as on Scribd. I also updated post #1 in this thread with the updated link. Happy 20 weeks of 8th notes playing!

 




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