That '67 Strat...

[CanuckProducer]

A few months ago some of you might remember my asking questions about getting an appraisal of a long lost guitar, recently returned to me. This weekend I finally arranged a guitar pro (and builder) to dissemble it, look for clues as to verifying its age. Video's not done yet, he's coming back again and we'll video some more, but for those interested in the topic, here are some pics we took while apart.
http://s592.photobucket.com/user/CanuckProducer/library/?sort=3&page=1

Thanks, and thanks again for your help

 

[monty]

Thanks for the update.

 

[CanuckProducer]

So... does anyone have any ideas on why there's no date stamp on the neck itself? (I heard a few opinions... wondering if anyone has better ones

 

[slowerhand]

Looks a lot like my stripped 1965.

As to your question, the obvious thing that comes to mind is a neck refin, but that seems unlikely from the background.

 

[CanuckProducer]

'Appreciate your sharing - that's a new one though. I bought the Strat used in 1973 - who knows if it was an original neck then? One party said maybe it was a 1960 neck (they didn't implement dates in that year, or so I've been told). Another opinion I got on that was that not *all* fender necks in fact implemented a date. Later on it became mandatory - but a fellow on another forum said he's seen them before without a neck date. Whatever, the neck is nice

 

[qblue]

I have a 1970 that has no date stamp and the neck appears older than the neck plate serial number. This common in CBS-Fender, in that they sometimes did stamp them and sometimes they didn't.

What bothers me about that hardtail is that neck has 3 string guide retainers, when the originals had only 1. Mine has 2 and the second was clearly added. Also the decal on the large headstock is missing some Pat. Pending numbers; this is due to that it is a hardtail. Most of those numbers may have referred to the tremolo and parts of that apparatus. Yes it is missing the Synchronized Tremelo decal that resides on the ball end.

 

[slowerhand]

It could be worth repeating this question on Strat-Talk. Though technically it's not a pre-CBS, it's close enough that I would put it under the pre-CBS sub-forum, because that's where the vintage experts hang out. Very desirable guitar for sure.

 

[CanuckProducer]

It could be worth repeating this question on Strat-Talk. Though technically it's not a pre-CBS, it's close enough that I would put it under the pre-CBS sub-forum, because that's where the vintage experts hang out. Very desirable guitar for sure.

Good point. Thanks for the suggestion

 

[CanuckProducer]

Well, I posted on Strat Talk - didn't want to break any forum rules as newbie, so posted under general start talk. Couple private messages bot nothing other than 'sometimes they didn't put the date'. As for the 3 string retainer Tees, I do recall adding one because of low string rattle in the studio (man, that was long ago). I do believe that there were two already on it when I bought it in '73.

 

[treeofpain]

What leads you to believe this is a 67? There are a lot of details in the pics that would indicate this is a 70s guitar.

 

[ripgtr]

The problem putting it on the other site is kind of an issue you are going to have anywhere - the date. Early cbs.
Problem is, over there, the guys who are more familiar with the old stuff, who own old stuff, are going to be showing up on the pre CBS sub forum. And you don't have all the people researching every little detail of the CBS stuff.

Since this is CBS, even just a couple years, it gets tricky. I know what a '60 looks like but I have never really spent any time with a late 60s one.
A great site for strat info - http://www.guitarhq.com/66strat.html - stops at '66.

Serial number is in the range of '67.

This site says they didn't change to F tuners til 68 -
https://reverb.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-the-stratocaster

Not a 1960 neck. From about around May of 59 til maybe march/april of 60, no dates. But a '60 would be a slab board.That looks more like a 69 than a 66 headstock to me. Certainly not a '60 or pre CBS neck.
But he does say - http://www.guitarhq.com/fender.html - they found '67 - '80, some guitars didn't have serial numbers.'

Early grey bottom pickups would have hand written date. These are stamped. The last two digits may be the year, 73? Looks like they are not staggered either, which would be about this time in the early 70s, I think. Maybe research that some, that might give you more info. Maybe the pickups were swapped while you didn't have it?

Anyway, not my era, it certainly looks like an earlier CBS but hard to say from the pics and what little knowledge I have of the post Leo stuff. You will probably need more expert set of eyes on this, someone who knows early CBS stuff.

 

[CanuckProducer]

What leads you to believe this is a 67? There are a lot of details in the pics that would indicate this is a 70s guitar.

Sorry - I don't get on here as often as I should
The serial number mostly ( 206430 - check online (http://www.guitardaterproject.org/fender.aspx) it reports "Your guitar was made at theFullerton Plant (Fender - CBS Era), USA in the Year(s): 1967" ) - and the fact that I bought it in '73 as a used guitar. Back in '73, the Strat didn't have the cred it has today - well, a '67 certainly didn't. It was just another used guitar.

But if you've got any pointers to offer that could help pinpoint an affirmed year, I'm all ears.
The whole effort is posting all these pics and descriptions to guitar guys was so that I could conform a date of the guitar. All I've been able to get so far is the serial and the guitar tech who took it apart said 'well, looks like a 67 to me'

 

[treeofpain]

The serial number is on a plate that is easily swappable or even duplicated. Pretty sure this is a parts guitar.

 

[Yogi_Sizzle]

The serial number is on a plate that is easily swappable or even duplicated. Pretty sure this is a parts guitar.

I mean the neck is correct for 66-70 Strat, I have seen some F tuners on 67 strats, however it is possible that its a 68-70 neck with a 66-67 decal as its obvious that it has been messed with. It also has mix-matched saddles.

 

[CanuckProducer]

It also has mix-matched saddles.

Yes, I was aware of those - I had them installed back in 75 I think because I started doing session work and had string rattles - as with the extra trees on the head, which cured the problem.
Not arguing, but respectfully, I don't think that makes it a 'parts guitar'.
I came here for information; thanks to all who have offered some

 

[Yogi_Sizzle]

Yes, I was aware of those - I had them installed back in 75 I think because I started doing session work and had string rattles - as with the extra trees on the head, which cured the problem.
Not arguing, but respectfully, I don't think that makes it a 'parts guitar'.
I came here for information; thanks to all who have offered some

Oh I dont think its a parts guitar, I was just stating it was obviously not all original but you already knew that.

 

[slowerhand]

Just a tidbit of information. Here's another 1967 that has the F-style tuners:

http://www.strato-crazy.com/VG1883.html

And another:
http://www.strato-crazy.com/VG2006.html

Other 1967s in their stock have Klusons. So it seems they were around by 1967, and 1967 was probably the transition year for that.

 

[treeofpain]

I think the neck is a 66 to 68 neck. The transition logo looks legit, though incomplete. Since the logo is placed over the finish during this era, it is not uncommon for it to peel off over time. The type of finish checking on the neck is consistent with later 60's checking. A large headstock was initiated toward the end of 1965.

The neck plate appears to be a 67 plate.

At least one of the pickups is ink dated 1973. Maybe the pickups were swapped out at one time? Plenty of messy wiring under the hood, so it's definitely been messed with a bit.

No way to date the body definitively, but it looks like it was once a sunburst. Hippy natural refins were common in the 70s.

Hope this helps.

 

[Raygun Gothic]

Well, I posted on Strat Talk - didn't want to break any forum rules as newbie, so posted under general start talk. Couple private messages bot nothing other than 'sometimes they didn't put the date'. As for the 3 string retainer Tees, I do recall adding one because of low string rattle in the studio (man, that was long ago). I do believe that there were two already on it when I bought it in '73.

Try TDPRI. It's a Telecaster board, but there's a community of incredibly knowledgeable people over there (or used to be). If they don't know, they'll probably be able to point you to someone who does.

 

[CanuckProducer]

Sold to a happy buyer from Vancouver this afternoon
Thanks all for your input.
'Nice forum here