The best lesson on improv you will find. Peter Farell content

Discussion in 'Playing and Technique' started by Tag, Apr 16, 2020.

  1. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

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    IOW, Like I said,, he sometimes uses C HW over D7.
    :D
     
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  2. Ed DeGenaro

    Ed DeGenaro Supporting Member

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    Not fake, he puts foil on them.
     
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  3. 8nthatK

    8nthatK Supporting Member

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    Yeah...but it's fake foil, I'm pretty sure.
     
  4. StevenA

    StevenA Member

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    I have posted in the past that various pivots in the Bebop Dom Grandmother scale promotes many of the possible lines derived from the various H/W options, without the necessary theory. Because all 12 tones are always in play, the lines are practically infinite and readily accessible. Same lines, different path.
     
  5. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

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    Do you really think the "bebop scale" is a scale though? I think its just a line or device they used. The insertion of a chromatic note or notes is done between so many chord and scale tones, not just the root and 7th.
     
  6. Ed DeGenaro

    Ed DeGenaro Supporting Member

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    Chicken or egg? Chord or scale?.
    The Bebop scales exist by sticking a diminished resolving to a a chord and inverting it.
    Genius device to harmonize scale wise melodies.
    Then we have the scale use...as in "oh wow look it resolves into a chord tone."
    Bebop Major... 6 and it's °7
    Bebop Minor is it's inversion or m7 and it's °7
    Bebop Mel. Min -6 and it's °7
    Etc, etc...

    When we talk about PF superimposing stuff, knowing harmonic implications helps...

    Plus it dies not start with Bebop Dom...why you think PF has the "double 7" in minor. It's Bebop Minor...build in V i resolutions.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2020
  7. StevenA

    StevenA Member

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    Actually the Bebop Dom Grandmother scale is a pattern to give dominant tonality to the chromatic scale. I use it as a reference to manipulate.
     
  8. Kentano2000

    Kentano2000 Member

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    What intervals make up this so-called Bebop Dominant Grandmother scale?
     
  9. StevenA

    StevenA Member

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    Every interval. It is a reconfiguration of the chromatic scale.
     
  10. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

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    I can't help it. I'm not a proponent or believer in the bebop Scale. I'm a believer in a lick that's called the bebop scale.
    :D
     
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  11. StevenA

    StevenA Member

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    I’m not a big fan of scales either. I look at this pattern like a deck of cards, it produces lots of hands.
     
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  12. Megatron

    Megatron Member

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    I just see it as a great way of creating a line that puts the strong notes-the chord tones- on the beat and generates strong lines. More of a device. Academia has to label it though.
     
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  13. StevenA

    StevenA Member

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    Sometimes the “weak” notes are on the beat. That’s the rub, in/out, flux/reflux, doors open, walk in, or not.
     
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  14. Megatron

    Megatron Member

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    In academic circumstances you start on a chord tone and it lines the chord tones specifically on the beat and creates a strong line.
     
  15. StevenA

    StevenA Member

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    Yes, I understand. This is the inverse of that. I know of no theory that supports it. I just copy the lines that I come across while transcribing.
     
  16. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

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    Exactly. More than sometimes, and you very rarely hear that "scale". You hear chromatics connecting everything. If you have to use it to place certain notes on the strong beats your not hearing the lines.
     
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  17. Megatron

    Megatron Member

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    I hear where your coming from. We all use a lot of chromaticism. But when I think of a bebop scale, I think specifically(for me) of that particular device in a rhythmic way-in swinging eighth notes that become an 8 note scale and puts the chord tones on the beat. Actually in a way that could keep rolling up, down and through octaves and keep that going. Once we start improvising most of that goes out the window-lol.
     
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  18. StevenA

    StevenA Member

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    Right, I learned it through Jack Zucker’s Pat Martino lick
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2020
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  19. Ed DeGenaro

    Ed DeGenaro Supporting Member

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    And that is what it is a connector between arpeggios or areas of activity.
    But see as always Bebop scale comes up and it's a discussion on its use as single string lines...never harmonically.
     
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  20. Megatron

    Megatron Member

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    Agreed.

    Honestly I've never thought of it in that way or to connect it to BH or any other system(I still need to dive into the BH stuff deeper). Once I understood it, I didn't even think of it as a shape or formula. And I try to take things out of the academic context often because I don't think that was what CP and Dizzy were thinking. I Always think of it as a rhythmic device that creates great lines emphasizing chord tones. Personally when I use it, it usually comes out pretty cliche. I need to work on it, to keep the line rolling and maybe changing directions. But back to Steve. I see chromaticism and the bebop scale as 2 things. You could be chromatic and still not be using that device. ymmv
     

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