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The Boutique market thru the eyes of a great Wah Builder

macmax77

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
13,306
The competition is so fierce in the “boutique” market now. It seems like everybody is building the same things only they don’t tell you that their “magic box” is a Tube Screamer, or a Fuzz Face, or a Tone-Bender, or a Phase 90, or whatever. They make up some bozo product name and get some shills to hype it on the Internet music boards and make people think that they’ve just GOT to buy this “new” toy. Meanwhile, the musician already has a TS-9 or two, a Fuzz Face, and everything else. Internet shill hype is such ********. Man, I haven’t even advertised since 2000 or displayed at a NAMM show since 2001 and I don’t have shills on any kind of payroll or trade-out or anything. I don’t even have paid endorsees. All of the professional players that use my stuff do so because they sought my wahs out. I think there are VERY few innovators out there. I wish there was more creativity. There are WAY more wannabes that think they can get rich quick building some kits and selling them on the ‘net. Most of these “businesses” are just kitchen tables, a computer, and a snazzy website that proclaims them to be the “Next Big Thing.” Let me tell you, the effects business is anything BUT a get rich quick thing. If you want to do it for real, there are international laws that have to be followed. The consequences of not following those laws can be quite severe. But “kids” (I can say that – I’m getting bloody old these days) get stars in their eyes, a 5 dollar soldering iron in their hand and think they’re going to conquer the world. It simply is not that easy.
There are certainly a few “boutique” guys that I really admire. Bob Sweet and his Ultra-Vibe, he knows his skill and knows what a Vibe should sound like, and he’s one helluva friend in the business. Zach Vex.
 

blood5150

Member
Messages
5,642
I dont know... I kind of like the idea that some 10 year old kid is not building my pedals in some factory in Taiwan.... It may cost a little more, but hey.. thats peace of mind.

USA! USA! USA!
 
Messages
4,297
I dont know... I kind of like the idea that some 10 year old kid is not building my pedals in some factory in Taiwan.... It may cost a little more, but hey.. thats peace of mind.

USA! USA! USA!
Yea they have that 10 year old in Vegas working as a sex slave..
And ya wrote that on your Chinese computer that you went and bought in your import car.:D Just playing with ya...Peace!!!
 
Messages
4,297
The competition is so fierce in the “boutique” market now. It seems like everybody is building the same things only they don’t tell you that their “magic box” is a Tube Screamer, or a Fuzz Face, or a Tone-Bender, or a Phase 90, or whatever. They make up some bozo product name and get some shills to hype it on the Internet music boards and make people think that they’ve just GOT to buy this “new” toy. Meanwhile, the musician already has a TS-9 or two, a Fuzz Face, and everything else. Internet shill hype is such ********. Man, I haven’t even advertised since 2000 or displayed at a NAMM show since 2001 and I don’t have shills on any kind of payroll or trade-out or anything. I don’t even have paid endorsees. All of the professional players that use my stuff do so because they sought my wahs out. I think there are VERY few innovators out there. I wish there was more creativity. There are WAY more wannabes that think they can get rich quick building some kits and selling them on the ‘net. Most of these “businesses” are just kitchen tables, a computer, and a snazzy website that proclaims them to be the “Next Big Thing.” Let me tell you, the effects business is anything BUT a get rich quick thing. If you want to do it for real, there are international laws that have to be followed. The consequences of not following those laws can be quite severe. But “kids” (I can say that – I’m getting bloody old these days) get stars in their eyes, a 5 dollar soldering iron in their hand and think they’re going to conquer the world. It simply is not that easy.
There are certainly a few “boutique” guys that I really admire. Bob Sweet and his Ultra-Vibe, he knows his skill and knows what a Vibe should sound like, and he’s one helluva friend in the business. Zach Vex.
https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/338398
 

Wesman61

Member
Messages
4,330
I came here to start a thead asking if there is going to be a Boutique Pedal correction soon and saw Your thread. I've seen a lot of pedals not fetching what they used to and there are so many "Boutique" TS variants out there it's rediculous. Anymore You really need to come up with something that is ground groundbreaking to really make a splash. Compitition does drive the market to improve the product so I'm not complaining too much.
 

gururyan

Member
Messages
4,851
What? I don't get it. If this is a quote from Vex, it doesn't make sense unless it's old. In the quote he says he hasn't displayed at NAMM since 2001. Anyone can go to the ZVex site and view the pages he has linked from his homepage for his booth at NAMM 2003, NAMM 2004, NAMM 2005, NAMM 2006, and so forth.
 

gururyan

Member
Messages
4,851
Guitar pedals are serious business.
I never new this until joining TGP five years ago. It's amazed me the drama, hatred, and cut-throat antics that I have learned about over the years. It's saddening and sickening. In fact, it makes me want to rid myself of all my pedals. They disgust me now.





...ok, so that last bit was an exaggeration.
 

macmax77

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
13,306
This is a quote from Teese and i think he is right.

I have been saying from a Marketing point of view that the market has been set for anyone that claims to be boutique and can copy a TS9 to come over and earn a lot of money with toys that won't cost 50 dollars to manufacture.

The problem is that i could explain myself in my first language, but in english it is a bit difficult, blame my parents, they took me to an island and i grew there, Thanks God, hehehhehehe
 

macmax77

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
13,306
I never new this until joining TGP five years ago. It's amazed me the drama, hatred, and cut-throat antics that I have learned about over the years. It's saddening and sickening. In fact, it makes me want to rid myself of all my pedals. They disgust me now.





...ok, so that last bit was an exaggeration.
ahhahahahhahahah:D
 

somedude

Member
Messages
8,034
What? I don't get it. If this is a quote from Vex, it doesn't make sense unless it's old. In the quote he says he hasn't displayed at NAMM since 2001. Anyone can go to the ZVex site and view the pages he has linked from his homepage for his booth at NAMM 2003, NAMM 2004, NAMM 2005, NAMM 2006, and so forth.
It's a quote from Geoffrey Teese... the end was cut off.

There are certainly a few “boutique” guys that I really admire. Bob Sweet and his Ultra-Vibe, he knows his skill and knows what a Vibe should sound like, and he’s one helluva friend in the business. Zach Vex. He’s changed his models to adapt with time without compromising tone, quality, or his vision. Some people, he rubs the wrong way, but he’s definitely earned my respect and I use his Box of Rock in my personal rig. His BoR is “tits on a blonde” – that’s alright to say, isn’t it? I’ve never met either of these guys face-to-face but I’m sure our paths will cross.

http://www.sixstringsoul.com/teese-real-mccoy-wahs-interview/
 

somedude

Member
Messages
8,034
Teese is right

I agree. It seems that most of the real deal boutiquers produce quality pedal after quality pedal that have a refinement that the mass produced models lack, whereas most of the others just end up copying what someone else has done and releasing it as their own.

Still, some of these small upstarts come up with some interesting variants sometimes. And I can't really fault someone for trying if people are willing to buy....
 

gururyan

Member
Messages
4,851
Something to consider.

I wouldn't know if A's X pedal, B's Y pedal, C's Z pedal, and D's W pedal were all the same pedal because I just don't have the time, patience, money, or in some cases the connections to get to try every pedal out there. If I come across B's Y pedal first, and I like what it does for me, I'm going to buy it. Something else to consider is that we are all artists, so we enjoy art on many levels...even the packaging or sales pitch for a product. It's just like any other product out there. I mean, how many bars of soap are available and how different do you really think they can be from each other? Some have moisturizers, some perfumes, some are even medicinal. But, you are surely going to find some that are simply packaged and marketed differently. You are going to pay for the ones you like the best. We've all heard about the guitar strings coming from like three manufactures (for the most part) and just being packed differently. Same thing with contact lenses. So, to sum it up...I think all the drama that goes on between some builders is just absurd and sounds more like growing pains. Those that were in it in the beginning when it was a small niche surely had financial bonuses that disappeared as the market opened up. It's like any other product maturing from infancy. No longer can you corner the market and get all the customers, eventually the product becomes producible to the masses and WHAM!...you have to move onward and upward to keep your position as king of the mountain.

/soapbox
 

macmax77

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
13,306
Something to consider.

I wouldn't know if A's X pedal, B's Y pedal, C's Z pedal, and D's W pedal were all the same pedal because I just don't have the time, patience, money, or in some cases the connections to get to try every pedal out there. If I come across B's Y pedal first, and I like what it does for me, I'm going to buy it. Something else to consider is that we are all artists, so we enjoy art on many levels...even the packaging or sales pitch for a product. It's just like any other product out there. I mean, how many bars of soap are available and how different do you really think they can be from each other? Some have moisturizers, some perfumes, some are even medicinal. But, you are surely going to find some that are simply packaged and marketed differently. You are going to pay for the ones you like the best. We've all heard about the guitar strings coming from like three manufactures (for the most part) and just being packed differently. Same thing with contact lenses. So, to sum it up...I think all the drama that goes on between some builders is just absurd and sounds more like growing pains. Those that were in it in the beginning when it was a small niche surely had financial bonuses that disappeared as the market opened up. It's like any other product maturing from infancy. No longer can you corner the market and get all the customers, eventually the product becomes producible to the masses and WHAM!...you have to move onward and upward to keep your position as king of the mountain.

/soapbox
you know what we do in the Marketing world?

We create the "needs" that no one needs.

We should be hanged for what we do(in my case, what i did to create stupid needs)

There is no magic dust or soap or anything, it is only marketing to make us buy things we don't really need.

As for pedals, i am a fool myself, i buy a lot of them and never post them here, i have only posted a few and i won't even get into the what pedals i am waiting threads, cause i don't care if someone else knows what i have or will have or play.

When i do say i have something is when i think i can help someone else that has a "somewhat similar rig or need" to my rig or need.

But , will i buy a Landy and post it here? no unless i think it is going to help someone else , but i won't even post that i bought it just to share a pic of a pretty pedal.

Don't get me wrong, most of the guys here are just great, nice people and i love em without ever meeting them and each time i deal with someone here i try to be as honest as possible and i always try to send something else with what i have sold them,but as i said:

In the awful marketing world, we create "needs" that aren't really needs.
 

r9player

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
6,869
the boutique/'boutique' pedal making biz is all over the board, from diy have a run at it amateurs to some people who take their stuff very serious.
I've gotten way more then my share of pedals and have run into the cheap that are great, the cheap that are just cheap, the expensive that are great and the expensive that are cheap. It really is all over the board.
A boutique builder charging a high price doesn't necessarily deliver the $$ worth and sometimes an 'amateur' with a cheap pedal goes way beyond the $$ you paid for it.
I would say with the proliferation of the boutique pedal biz. it is just becoming harder to pick out the good ones and the bad ones as well as the ones that suit you for your application vs. the ones that just don't for one reason or another.
on the flip side it gives rise to much more GAS that spawns more biz that spawns more builders ...
 

Hiwatt Bob

Member
Messages
1,025
first--i'd like to say that i own a Teese RMC3 wah and i love it. i think it's perhaps the most flexible and best sounding 'conventional' wah i've played.

however--
i think it's kind of ridiculous. this guy has made his living off of variations on the same theme. geoffrey didn't invent the wah pedal, didn't come up with the original idea for it. he took what was in old designs and modified them into newer designs.

imho, vex's wah probe and seekwah/oohwah's are far more innovative takes on the wah. i now use the wah probe as my main wah--because it just seems smoother to me and is capable of more 'synthy' type sounds. but whatever, vex at least took the wah and did something more revolutionary with it (doing away with a treadle, tying it in with a theremin plate or sequencer).

anyhow, don't get me wrong--i love geoffrey's pedals and i love his passion for wahs. and i know he was just being honest in his interview, but it just kind of came off as a bit pretentious. wasn't geoffrey just a kid with a soldering iron at one point?? maybe i'd feel differently if i were a pedal maker myself. i agree the market is flooded with alot of crap/hype/etc. but it's also flooded with a bunch of cool s#!t.
 

Uma Floresta

Senior Member
Messages
2,447
first--i'd like to say that i own a Teese RMC3 wah and i love it. i think it's perhaps the most flexible and best sounding 'conventional' wah i've played.

however--
i think it's kind of ridiculous. this guy has made his living off of variations on the same theme. geoffrey didn't invent the wah pedal, didn't come up with the original idea for it. he took what was in old designs and modified them into newer designs.

imho, vex's wah probe and seekwah/oohwah's are far more innovative takes on the wah. i now use the wah probe as my main wah--because it just seems smoother to me and is capable of more 'synthy' type sounds. but whatever, vex at least took the wah and did something more revolutionary with it (doing away with a treadle, tying it in with a theremin plate or sequencer).

anyhow, don't get me wrong--i love geoffrey's pedals and i love his passion for wahs. and i know he was just being honest in his interview, but it just kind of came off as a bit pretentious. wasn't geoffrey just a kid with a soldering iron at one point?? maybe i'd feel differently if i were a pedal maker myself. i agree the market is flooded with alot of crap/hype/etc. but it's also flooded with a bunch of cool s#!t.
Good point!
 

Doodles

Member
Messages
74
first--i'd like to say that i own a Teese RMC3 wah and i love it. i think it's perhaps the most flexible and best sounding 'conventional' wah i've played.

however--
i think it's kind of ridiculous. this guy has made his living off of variations on the same theme. geoffrey didn't invent the wah pedal, didn't come up with the original idea for it. he took what was in old designs and modified them into newer designs.

imho, vex's wah probe and seekwah/oohwah's are far more innovative takes on the wah. i now use the wah probe as my main wah--because it just seems smoother to me and is capable of more 'synthy' type sounds. but whatever, vex at least took the wah and did something more revolutionary with it (doing away with a treadle, tying it in with a theremin plate or sequencer).

anyhow, don't get me wrong--i love geoffrey's pedals and i love his passion for wahs. and i know he was just being honest in his interview, but it just kind of came off as a bit pretentious. wasn't geoffrey just a kid with a soldering iron at one point?? maybe i'd feel differently if i were a pedal maker myself. i agree the market is flooded with alot of crap/hype/etc. but it's also flooded with a bunch of cool s#!t.
I agree it's not like he invented the wah they just cloned the circuits just like the people he's bitchin about. It all seems a little petty to me like why should someone so established be afraid of some small boutique builders??
 




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