Moving this discussion over to its own space. In the past year I've purchased two 'vintage' Celestion 12-65s, and then a pair of brand new Celestion Heritage 12-65s. The old ones in 15 ohms, the new ones 16ohms. There have been discussions of the older models having a variety of cones and lables, while the new ones are now being discussed as sounding 'harsh', fizzy' and having cone-cry. Laer, I'm going to post some pictures of my older examples to show the differences in the labels and size of the voice coils. They are remarkably different. For the record, at least in my case, none had cone cry. The older ones are too loose on the low end for my taste. The Heritage ones I acquired needed about 100 hours to break in. No cone cry, no fizz, not harsh. I really like them in the 2x12 semi-open backed Glaswerks cab. A very good pair of speakers for my needs. How about the rest of you?