The KPA is amazing.......but......

Discussion in 'Digital & Modeling Gear' started by Chadley, Jan 25, 2012.

  1. Chadley

    Chadley Member

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    How long will it be until someone else comes out with their version of what the KPA is doing?

    What the KPA does isn't new. It is using the same technology that software designers have been using for years to model all of our different pieces of music gear. Whether it is the latest and great UA plug in that models a vintage tube compressor or the (insert favorite amp modeler here) that models your favorite guitar amp, they were modeled with impulse responses and convolution.

    The Kemper Profiling Amp took this basic technology and for the first time made it really accessible to the general guitar public in a really sleek and easy to use package. It has taken guitar amplifier emulation technology and completely blown it open. Instead of people sitting around waiting for Line 6, Avid or Fractal to come out with another update/expansion pack to their software with new amps that are modeled, we can simply turn to the public find/contribute what you can. We now have the keys to Dad's car.....and he is out of town for the weekend!

    My point is this......

    The industry is going to change. How long till we see something from Line 6, Avid, Fractal, Zoom, Roland, Digitech, etc. that basically does the same thing? I don't think too long.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. Gasp100

    Gasp100 Silver Supporting Member

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    Avid? Never
    Fractal? Probably has it half reverse engineered already, site unseen
    L6? Won't embrace the tech unless they can squeeze it into a sub $500 box
    The others don't care enough to even try
     
  3. mtmartin71

    mtmartin71 Silver Supporting Member

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    Tough to say. We here in this forum are mostly cork sniffers. 98% (maybe more) of audiences who listen to a local bar band couldn't necessarily distinguish between a properly dialed in HD500 to a properly dialed in KPA or Axe-FX 2 (IMHO). WE care, and some of us are willing to shell out over $1800 or more to show how much we care. I guess what I don't know is what the horsepower between the KPA, Axe-FX, and HD500 looks like. Also, I think Line 6 has talented engineers too, but they are on a different type of product schedule and ecosystem. So at some point in x number months of years (years more likely), it would stand to reason that Line 6 or a like company could put out technology that matches what we consider the top modeling tech today for their $500 footpedal price point. The question is, where will Kemper or Fractal have gone and how much room is there left to improve the modeling tech until the returns or perceived differences are minimal or non-existant? I mean, at some point this tech is going to get rung out and then it becomes a question of features, form factor, and most importantly, price points.
     
  4. kyolic

    kyolic Member

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    KPA is using Dynamic Convolution technology not the common static one.

    Dynamic Convolution technology is actually patented by Sintefex so if someone wants to use it, he or she has to write his codes from scratch or buy a licence from Sintefex. Focusrite Liquid Channel for example. They buy licence from Sintefex.

    Nebula VST plugin also uses this technology and they did write their own codes.

    So don't expect for many dynamic convolution stuff going on in the near future because it is not easy to code it from scratch.
     
  5. Scott Peterson

    Scott Peterson Staff Member

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    If the Kemper proves to be a successful product then it is naive to think other companies won't do their own versions of what the Kemper does.

    I was burned at the stake for saying that in the year long speculation threads; but IMHO, it is just how markets function. If something is novel and successful in the market, then it is only a matter of time before competing products hit the market. A huge player doing just this sort of reverse-engineering and hitting the market with a value product is Behringer. And they are German too - don't think they aren't watching the markets. They are all about making price points with their own 'version' of successful products.

    It's common sense. The market decides it.
     
  6. GuitarKidd

    GuitarKidd Member

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    :agree

    The market does decide... and it's great that it does because it only benefits us with competition and lower prices...

    In 10 years it will be amazing to see what we have as tools.
     
  7. zentman

    zentman Member

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    Will they do it as well as Kemper though. Writing code that makes beautiful sound is an art.
     
  8. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel Silver Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    My KPA is my Amp, I have owned many Amps and it has never really bothered me that other Amps come along and sound better then my amp. As Long as I like the sound who cares. If you are more concerned with an arms race then making music you will never be happy. Something BETTER is always around the corner.
     
  9. cliffc8488

    cliffc8488 Member

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    No, it isn't.
     
  10. mdme_sadie

    mdme_sadie Member

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    It's the price of progress. You want to be on the cutting edge then your'e bound to end up with a few nicks. By the time you get any new technology home it's already been superseded.

    When digital amp sims first came out near twenty years ago it was instantly clear that there would be many more of them and this was the case, some better than the original others worse, but there were plenty of others ranging in price and they continue to release new and improved sims, but the people that bought it first knew this would happen, just like when you buy any piece of kit you know there's going to be something else to GAS for very shortly after, and they don't tend to complain and often still fondly remember their first units, of course it's debatable just how far the technology has come when, and especially when we compare it with virtually any other areas of computer science. But the point is that they got their moneys worth out of them already.

    That's how you treat any purchase. Yes, other people are guaranteed to do similar things. Some will do a worse job of it and still sound like plastic, others will do a better job of it and sound even closer to the real deal. Progress will continue to happen though and in a few more years there will be another "revolution" in the approach to guitar audio convolution, and everyone will do that too.

    What's guaranteed is that we're just at the start of a long slow process of incremental change and improvement with this particular technology in it's consumer ready form. Given the background on the Virus synth You shouldn't even consider this the end state for the Kemper either but it's start, I'm sure there will be many great updates going it's way before that unit reaches it's full potential.

    So, you can either sit back and wait forever not doing anything, because there will never be a "best" or "final" product, or you can go and grab a Kemper, AxeFX, 11r, Pod HD, GT100, or any other amp sim, or maybe a real amp and get playing, enjoying yourself and maybe making a few bob now, and worry about tomorrow, tomorrow.
     
  11. paulmapp8306

    paulmapp8306 Member

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    And Black Squirrel - you KPA isnt an Amp either (nor are the AFX or 11r mind). There is no amplification device in the unit --- at least not yet.

    Calling it an AMP "could" be described as false advertising. If someone didnt actually do their research they could buy one expecting it to replace a head - and currently it doesnt.

    I know it WILL be an amp when they get their power module finished and fitted, and Id wager everyone (currently) buying one KNOWS what it actually is. But still - dont call it what it isnt yet.
     
  12. Scott Peterson

    Scott Peterson Staff Member

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    It's a signal processor; same as the HD300-HD500, 11R, Axe-FX and any variety of other signal processors. It's not an amp, no matter what it's called because you cannot (as of yet) use it without some form of amplification and cabinet or FOH PA system.
     
  13. blewis

    blewis Member

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    Who are the people that can drop $1850 on a device but can't be bothered to "do their research"?

    They're either dumb or too rich to care.

    Since they're probably an adult, they probably know how to read a couple of different web pages to set themselves straight.
     
  14. mattball826

    mattball826 Member

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    some said behringer will rev eng it and make it avail for $300
     
  15. Scott Peterson

    Scott Peterson Staff Member

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    If anyone would do that, it would be Behringer.
     
  16. TrickinSid

    TrickinSid Member

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    By that time.......I won't even be able to hear it! :omg

    :bonk

    Seriously.......it is mind boggling on what is happening with gear these days.
     
  17. jbealsmusic

    jbealsmusic Member

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    Behringer FTW! Unless it randomly stops functioning, breaks down mid-gig, or never quite works right in the first place...

    Forgive my ignorance, I don't know much (or anything) about writing code, assembling motherboards, and programming DSPs. Couldn't Kemper just copyright the method he's using so others can't copy it?

    Could you imagine an AxeFx III? All the glory of the AxeFx II + profiling. :omg SCARY!
     
  18. Don Petersen

    Don Petersen Member

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    not sure where you get your information from, but this is simply not the case.
     
  19. Brick_top

    Brick_top Member

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    Why would we need an axe-fx III to have some kind of profiling?
     
  20. Muzz

    Muzz Member

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    The important thing is the result not the technology. Right now you cannot get the same results with anything else in the market. If somebody releases anything that can achive the same results for less money, well as a customer I would definitely not complain about that.
     

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