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The official Two-Rock thread! Post your amps, favorites, opinions, pics and tips here

EdmundGTP

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
174
What level of noise if normal on a Two Rock Traditional Clean? Mine is quiet for the most part but there is definitely a bit of hum / hiss introduced as the Gain or Reverb Return knobs go about half way.
I've noticed this with mine as well. It doesn't always seem consistent either. I honestly probably wouldn't notice, but my Bloomfield is dead quiet. I've seen this mentioned a couple of times, so I assume it's just normal. It definitely seems related to the reverb.
The nature of how these amps are laid out will inherently introduce *some* power transformer noise (generally more of a "buzz" than a "hum") into the circuit through the reverb signal path. The reverb tank has transducers that pick up EM noise due to the relative proximity to between the two components. The higher you turn up the reverb return, the more present this noise will be. It is a topic that's come up here in the past.

As for how "quiet" the amp is or how "noticeable" the noise is. That's a subjective/relative thing. In a live setting, this PT reverb noise level will almost always be well below the relative noise floor of the venue (i.e. the audience isn't going to hear it over the sounds of everything else going on in the venue). Studio recording of the amp at moderate/loud volume will also put the PT reverb noise below the noise floor of the recording once tracking levels are adjusted (i.e. you won't hear it in the final mix because it will be too quiet).

Where the noise comes into play, and where it was noticeable to me, is when you're playing at low/moderate volumes in a quiet home or studio. Here, the relative volume of the guitar may only be 10 times as loud as the buzz instead of 100X, or 1000X as loud in the two scenarios above. From talking with the guys at TR, the design of these amps is geared towards optimum performance in the the two former scenarios rather than the latter, which is understandable.

There are options to try and minimize this noise. Some are more feasible than others.

The only way to get these amps 100% dead silent (with respect to PT reverb noise) is to get the reverb tank out of the EM field of the power transformer (the EM field extends several feet in all directions from the PT, making this option challenging), or reorient the reverb tank in a way that doesn't allow the EM field of the PT to transmit through the transducers of the reverb tank (EM fields ARE directional after all).. Or skip using the TR reverb all together in favor of an alternate reverb type/source. Not an option as far as I'm concerned. Half of the reason I own the amp in the first place is because of the TR reverb.

Me personally. I'm anal retentive about noise and I did some experimenting and fabricated an alternate mounting method for the reverb tank in my TC head that eliminates nearly all the PT reverb noise in my amp. Now I'd have to max out the reverb return and crank the master to even hear any of it in a quiet room.
 

Bluesful

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
38,159
The nature of how these amps are laid out will inherently introduce *some* power transformer noise (generally more of a "buzz" than a "hum") into the circuit through the reverb signal path. The reverb tank has transducers that pick up EM noise due to the relative proximity to between the two components. The higher you turn up the reverb return, the more present this noise will be. It is a topic that's come up here in the past.

As for how "quiet" the amp is or how "noticeable" the noise is. That's a subjective/relative thing. In a live setting, this PT reverb noise level will almost always be well below the relative noise floor of the venue (i.e. the audience isn't going to hear it over the sounds of everything else going on in the venue). Studio recording of the amp at moderate/loud volume will also put the PT reverb noise below the noise floor of the recording once tracking levels are adjusted (i.e. you won't hear it in the final mix because it will be too quiet).

Where the noise comes into play, and where it was noticeable to me, is when you're playing at low/moderate volumes in a quiet home or studio. Here, the relative volume of the guitar may only be 10 times as loud as the buzz instead of 100X, or 1000X as loud in the two scenarios above. From talking with the guys at TR, the design of these amps is geared towards optimum performance in the the two former scenarios rather than the latter, which is understandable.

There are options to try and minimize this noise. Some are more feasible than others.

The only way to get these amps 100% dead silent (with respect to PT reverb noise) is to get the reverb tank out of the EM field of the power transformer (the EM field extends several feet in all directions from the PT, making this option challenging), or reorient the reverb tank in a way that doesn't allow the EM field of the PT to transmit through the transducers of the reverb tank (EM fields ARE directional after all).. Or skip using the TR reverb all together in favor of an alternate reverb type/source. Not an option as far as I'm concerned. Half of the reason I own the amp in the first place is because of the TR reverb.

Me personally. I'm anal retentive about noise and I did some experimenting and fabricated an alternate mounting method for the reverb tank in my TC head that eliminates nearly all the PT reverb noise in my amp. Now I'd have to max out the reverb return and crank the master to even hear any of it in a quiet room.
I believe it's more noticeable with the 220V and 240V amps (mine is for example).
 

DoctorSpock

Member
Messages
1,739
The nature of how these amps are laid out will inherently introduce *some* power transformer noise (generally more of a "buzz" than a "hum") into the circuit through the reverb signal path. The reverb tank has transducers that pick up EM noise due to the relative proximity to between the two components. The higher you turn up the reverb return, the more present this noise will be. It is a topic that's come up here in the past.

As for how "quiet" the amp is or how "noticeable" the noise is. That's a subjective/relative thing. In a live setting, this PT reverb noise level will almost always be well below the relative noise floor of the venue (i.e. the audience isn't going to hear it over the sounds of everything else going on in the venue). Studio recording of the amp at moderate/loud volume will also put the PT reverb noise below the noise floor of the recording once tracking levels are adjusted (i.e. you won't hear it in the final mix because it will be too quiet).

Where the noise comes into play, and where it was noticeable to me, is when you're playing at low/moderate volumes in a quiet home or studio. Here, the relative volume of the guitar may only be 10 times as loud as the buzz instead of 100X, or 1000X as loud in the two scenarios above. From talking with the guys at TR, the design of these amps is geared towards optimum performance in the the two former scenarios rather than the latter, which is understandable.

There are options to try and minimize this noise. Some are more feasible than others.

The only way to get these amps 100% dead silent (with respect to PT reverb noise) is to get the reverb tank out of the EM field of the power transformer (the EM field extends several feet in all directions from the PT, making this option challenging), or reorient the reverb tank in a way that doesn't allow the EM field of the PT to transmit through the transducers of the reverb tank (EM fields ARE directional after all).. Or skip using the TR reverb all together in favor of an alternate reverb type/source. Not an option as far as I'm concerned. Half of the reason I own the amp in the first place is because of the TR reverb.

Me personally. I'm anal retentive about noise and I did some experimenting and fabricated an alternate mounting method for the reverb tank in my TC head that eliminates nearly all the PT reverb noise in my amp. Now I'd have to max out the reverb return and crank the master to even hear any of it in a quiet room.
Well said. Can you share your alternative mounting strategy?
 

EdmundGTP

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
174
Well said. Can you share your alternative mounting strategy?
Sure! I shared it with Eli at TR already. Doubt they'll do anything with it but figured I'd pass it along because I'm typically not one for hoarding ideas to myself for stuff like this. I'll put together another post on it when I get a chance. Bluesful's method below is the much easier option though. I wanted to keep my reverb circuit integral to the head rather than place it elsewhere, and that made a for a bit of a challenge.

I know you didn't ask me, but I thought I'd share nonetheless.

My tank sits in the bottom of my 1X12 cab.

I just bought a longer RCA to run from the head to the tank sitting in the cab.
 

DoctorSpock

Member
Messages
1,739
Sure! I shared it with Eli at TR already. Doubt they'll do anything with it but figured I'd pass it along because I'm typically not one for hoarding ideas to myself for stuff like this. I'll put together another post on it when I get a chance. Bluesful's method below is the much easier option though. I wanted to keep my reverb circuit integral to the head rather than place it elsewhere, and that made a for a bit of a challenge.
Notice you didn’t say you’re not one for suspense ;)
 

Bluesful

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
38,159
Sure! I shared it with Eli at TR already. Doubt they'll do anything with it but figured I'd pass it along because I'm typically not one for hoarding ideas to myself for stuff like this. I'll put together another post on it when I get a chance. Bluesful's method below is the much easier option though. I wanted to keep my reverb circuit integral to the head rather than place it elsewhere, and that made a for a bit of a challenge.
The reverb issue with my amp is because of the 240V thing, as I believe those in the US with the same model amp don't get the buzz.

I tried orientating the tank differently within the head cab, but the simplest and easiest thing was to just move it away from the transformers completely.

Putting in the bottom of the cab solved the issue and the reverb circuit is now dead quiet.

The only PITA would be if I was constantly having to the move the amp (playing gigs etc...), but I don't gig that amp so that's a non-issue for me.
 

Abram4235

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
5,038
The nature of how these amps are laid out will inherently introduce *some* power transformer noise (generally more of a "buzz" than a "hum") into the circuit through the reverb signal path. The reverb tank has transducers that pick up EM noise due to the relative proximity to between the two components. The higher you turn up the reverb return, the more present this noise will be. It is a topic that's come up here in the past.

As for how "quiet" the amp is or how "noticeable" the noise is. That's a subjective/relative thing. In a live setting, this PT reverb noise level will almost always be well below the relative noise floor of the venue (i.e. the audience isn't going to hear it over the sounds of everything else going on in the venue). Studio recording of the amp at moderate/loud volume will also put the PT reverb noise below the noise floor of the recording once tracking levels are adjusted (i.e. you won't hear it in the final mix because it will be too quiet).

Where the noise comes into play, and where it was noticeable to me, is when you're playing at low/moderate volumes in a quiet home or studio. Here, the relative volume of the guitar may only be 10 times as loud as the buzz instead of 100X, or 1000X as loud in the two scenarios above. From talking with the guys at TR, the design of these amps is geared towards optimum performance in the the two former scenarios rather than the latter, which is understandable.

There are options to try and minimize this noise. Some are more feasible than others.

The only way to get these amps 100% dead silent (with respect to PT reverb noise) is to get the reverb tank out of the EM field of the power transformer (the EM field extends several feet in all directions from the PT, making this option challenging), or reorient the reverb tank in a way that doesn't allow the EM field of the PT to transmit through the transducers of the reverb tank (EM fields ARE directional after all).. Or skip using the TR reverb all together in favor of an alternate reverb type/source. Not an option as far as I'm concerned. Half of the reason I own the amp in the first place is because of the TR reverb.

Me personally. I'm anal retentive about noise and I did some experimenting and fabricated an alternate mounting method for the reverb tank in my TC head that eliminates nearly all the PT reverb noise in my amp. Now I'd have to max out the reverb return and crank the master to even hear any of it in a quiet room.
Great info. I forgot to follow up on this. I dont notice any noise with my TC, other than a light hum that any amp might have at volume.

It used to be a talking point because the Jet and some studio pro models had horrendous noise. Like, it was bad. I unscrewed the reverb tank in my jet and moved it away from the transformer and the noise went away. So it was definitely the proximity of the reverb tank to the transformer. And it was worse in the smaller heads because everything was a tighter fit.

When I sold it, the buyer got in touch with me and thought there was something wrong with the amp. He lived close to the TR shop and said he'd bring it to get looked at. I told him I'd pay for any repairs if there was something wrong and I never heard from him again.
 
Last edited:

EdmundGTP

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
174
Notice you didn’t say you’re not one for suspense ;)
Without getting too deep in the weeds on construction and details, what I basically did was design and build a modified back panel for the head cabinet that doubles as a housing for the reverb tank, holding it in the "D" type mounting configuration ( vertical/connectors down - as specified in the TAD Data sheet) instead of the original "B" type mounting configuration (horizontal/open side down). This mounting orientation puts the reverb transducers at the appropriate angle, relative to the PT EM fields, so that the reverb circuit absorbs almost none of the EM noise. You have to re-configure the suspension springs inside the reverb tank to suspend the inner tray properly. Not a big deal. The back panel extends rearward of the main cabinet by about 1.6", pulling the tank away from the tube array. There is also a sheet metal shield that covers the half of the reverb tank/bag that is nearest to the power tubes to protect it from heat, and also acts as a secondary retention device to hold the reverb tank/bag inside the back panel. The lower inner edge of the back panel has (2) .63" X 45 degree clearance bevels that act as lower ventilation inlets when the back panel is installed with .5" spacers (hard to see in the drawing). The lower bevel openings allow for an effective convection path for cool air to enter the lower rear of the cabinet, and for power tube heat to escape via the upper rear opening of the cabinet. I verified no negative impact to cooling by taking temp measurements with an IR temp gun, running the amp hard for 1 hour plus, in the original and modified configurations. Temps varied by no more than 5-10 degrees F at any given location on the amp.

No negative effect to the sound/characteristics of the reverb, and no more PT noise.

Overall depth of the amp increased by 1.62 inches, but it's still all self-contained to the head cabinet.

 

Bluesful

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
38,159
Without getting too deep in the weeds on construction and details, what I basically did was design and build a modified back panel for the head cabinet that doubles as a housing for the reverb tank, holding it in the "D" type mounting configuration ( vertical/connectors down - as specified in the TAD Data sheet) instead of the original "B" type mounting configuration (horizontal/open side down). This mounting orientation puts the reverb transducers at the appropriate angle, relative to the PT EM fields, so that the reverb circuit absorbs almost none of the EM noise. You have to re-configure the suspension springs inside the reverb tank to suspend the inner tray properly. Not a big deal. The back panel extends rearward of the main cabinet by about 1.6", pulling the tank away from the tube array. There is also a sheet metal shield that covers the half of the reverb tank/bag that is nearest to the power tubes to protect it from heat, and also acts as a secondary retention device to hold the reverb tank/bag inside the back panel. The lower inner edge of the back panel has (2) .63" X 45 degree clearance bevels that act as lower ventilation inlets when the back panel is installed with .5" spacers (hard to see in the drawing). The lower bevel openings allow for an effective convection path for cool air to enter the lower rear of the cabinet, and for power tube heat to escape via the upper rear opening of the cabinet. I verified no negative impact to cooling by taking temp measurements with an IR temp gun, running the amp hard for 1 hour plus, in the original and modified configurations. Temps varied by no more than 5-10 degrees F at any given location on the amp.

No negative effect to the sound/characteristics of the reverb, and no more PT noise.

Overall depth of the amp increased by 1.62 inches, but it's still all self-contained to the head cabinet.

This is awesome.
 
Messages
581
What do you guys think would be an ideal TR amp to run alongside the Classic Reverb Sig 50W in a stereo or wet dry setup?

Particularly interested in 50W versions of the TS1, Bloomfield or the 100/50 version of the SSS.
 

Voxshall

Member
Messages
1,065
What do you guys think would be an ideal TR amp to run alongside the Classic Reverb Sig 50W in a stereo or wet dry setup?


Particularly interested in 50W versions of the TS1, Bloomfield or the 100/50 version of the SSS.
I don't know the answer but I find myself hoping you get the SSS and that you post clips of the rig in action
 

J D Miley

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
539
Never related that amp to sound sterile. What cab and speaker are you using? Is gain and master both at least 12pm?
I was running g it through a Matchless 2/12 cab with the Matchless Speakers . All other amps I have player through that cab sounded really good. I had the Gain set at about 11 and master at about noon hitting the front of it with pedals , RC Booster , a compressor for my country leads. etc. Got more girth and punch out of my 1996 Matchless C 30 at the same volume levels .
I am wondering if the new signatures series has improved enough over the regular ones to give them another try.
 

justin

Double Platinum Member
Messages
882
I was running g it through a Matchless 2/12 cab with the Matchless Speakers . All other amps I have player through that cab sounded really good. I had the Gain set at about 11 and master at about noon hitting the front of it with pedals , RC Booster , a compressor for my country leads. etc. Got more girth and punch out of my 1996 Matchless C 30 at the same volume levels .
I am wondering if the new signatures series has improved enough over the regular ones to give them another try.
All the new two rocks have much more punch to me. They're more present and up front sounding too. Just remember the CLRS is more super reverb than say a deluxe reverb. A Tele through a C30 is tough to beat for country. I tend to prefer Vox type tones for country myself. That's not what CLRS does.
 

Hamiltone

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
95
JD, I have a 2018 100 watt CLRS and I can attest there is no lack of girth or punch. I also had a Todd Sharp JOAT 30 that Todd is currently swapping for the 20 JOAT. These amps are different. Different but both have their space. I A/B back and forth and they both have something to offer. I think the CLRS would make a great addition to what you currently have.
 

J D Miley

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
539
All the new two rocks have much more punch to me. They're more present and up front sounding too. Just remember the CLRS is more super reverb than say a deluxe reverb. A Tele through a C30 is tough to beat for country. I tend to prefer Vox type tones for country myself. That's not what CLRS does.
Well that is where I struggle. My set list in both my bands and my Solo act consist of everything from Dwight Yoakum to ZZ Top, to U2 , Dire Straits , Cream, SRV, Eddie Money, Rock, Pop, Blues Country. So i need to capture as many tones of these artist as best i can with out having a multiple amp set up. At this time I am very happy with my new amp. It is about the right amount of power and has a luscious sound . Todd Sharp JOAT 20 RT . It is not "THE DO IT ALL AMP TO END ALL AMPs " but pretty darn close . . . and it totally replaced my 1996 Matchless C30 it all the good ways possible. I would say it is a very nice cross between a Fender and a Vox more so than the Matchless or DR Z's I have played . Love my Todd Sharp JOAT 20 RT !
I just remember that TR Classic reverb 50 to be one of those "Very very close , but no cigar" experiences. I am down to just the Todd Sharp and a 67 Fender Deluxe Reverb , some really nice OD/Dist pedals and a Kemper. I should not even being considering looking for another amp , but that TR Classic I almost kept. I will always consider another really good pedal platform amp that has a punchy lively sound.
 

justin

Double Platinum Member
Messages
882
Well that is where I struggle. My set list in both my bands and my Solo act consist of everything from Dwight Yoakum to ZZ Top, to U2 , Dire Straits , Cream, SRV, Eddie Money, Rock, Pop, Blues Country. So i need to capture as many tones of these artist as best i can with out having a multiple amp set up. At this time I am very happy with my new amp. It is about the right amount of power and has a luscious sound . Todd Sharp JOAT 20 RT . It is not "THE DO IT ALL AMP TO END ALL AMPs " but pretty darn close . . . and it totally replaced my 1996 Matchless C30 it all the good ways possible. I would say it is a very nice cross between a Fender and a Vox more so than the Matchless or DR Z's I have played . Love my Todd Sharp JOAT 20 RT !
I just remember that TR Classic reverb 50 to be one of those "Very very close , but no cigar" experiences. I am down to just the Todd Sharp and a 67 Fender Deluxe Reverb , some really nice OD/Dist pedals and a Kemper. I should not even being considering looking for another amp , but that TR Classic I almost kept. I will always consider another really good pedal platform amp that has a punchy lively sound.
I say try a new one then. You'll bet really set.
 

J D Miley

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
539
JD, I have a 2018 100 watt CLRS and I can attest there is no lack of girth or punch. I also had a Todd Sharp JOAT 30 that Todd is currently swapping for the 20 JOAT. These amps are different. Different but both have their space. I A/B back and forth and they both have something to offer. I think the CLRS would make a great addition to what you currently have.
Thanks for the comment ! Yea, I almost got a JOAT30 , glad I didn't . These not having a master volume. What I did remember and liked about the TR CR 50 was how it sounded very consistent from lower volumes to higher volumes. It could get a pushed sound at any volume. That is also why I am still looking at newer TR CRS.
 

TCMx3

Member
Messages
2,508
What do you guys think would be an ideal TR amp to run alongside the Classic Reverb Sig 50W in a stereo or wet dry setup?

Particularly interested in 50W versions of the TS1, Bloomfield or the 100/50 version of the SSS.
I get that this is the strategy du jour, but frankly IME this whole mixing and matching amps thing doesn't work very well in practice.

or maybe more specifically, I spend all my time thinking about how one sounds better than the other.

I'd get 2 identical amps and run 1 wet and 1 dry. Brian May style



probably the most disappointing thing that's ever happened to me wrt to gear was when I got my Crystal I couldn't believe how great it sounded. At the time, I was using a Germino Monterey (that I still have) that I also thought sounded aces. I plugged them in together and the result was distinctly less than the sum of its parts. I tried with a few other amps I had, always with the same results.

I'd definitely stick with identical amps, myself, in any sort of stereo setup.
 




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