The problem with guitar . . .

Discussion in 'The Sound Hound Lounge' started by Ubersooner, Feb 8, 2017.

  1. Resonance7

    Resonance7 Member

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    Technical skills don't equal a new paradigm to sound, new emotion, or feeling.
     
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  2. boo radley

    boo radley Supporting Member

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    No, of course not. Unless the music in question requires it?

    Guitar is somewhat unique with its folk roots and (relatively) new expression through being electrified, but outside of certain rock and pop songs, where does this need to "deny technique" exist? Does jazz, progressive rock, classic guitar, bluegrass, etc., not celebrate virtuosity? It's complex and aspects are intertwined, of course, but I sure wouldn't fail to appreciate the value and incredible work it takes to achieve skill on guitar or any instrument.
     
  3. Resonance7

    Resonance7 Member

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    I never said that a new paradigm in music wouldn't require skill. Don't assume.

    This isn't a vice versa situation.

    But, a lot of clips that people tout today are just 15yo speed shredders with no feel. They are not saying anything new. They are not 'CREATING' a new sonic landscape.

    That is dull, that is wank, that is what this thread, and my post, are addressing.

    It's just sad and laughable to see grown men praise this BS as the next 'thing', as some great step in music achievement.

    Music, imo, ISN'T a display of virtuosity, but rather, virtuosity APPLIED.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2017
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  4. bsacamano

    bsacamano Member

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    I'm constantly baffled by old timers that don't realize there isn't anyone out their amazing a new generation. You're as aware and impressed by these new kids as your parents were by EVH and their parents were by Hendrix.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2017
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  5. RR59CMS

    RR59CMS Member

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    And it only takes one.
     
  6. boo radley

    boo radley Supporting Member

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    Well, in fairness your previous post wasn't elaborate, but I like that about virtuosity being "applied." Agree (and, it might not even relate to the instrument, but to the melody, or voice, or....).
     
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  7. cvansickle

    cvansickle Supporting Member

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    The problem with guitar music? At the moment, it isn't marketable. :(
     
  8. Scatabrain

    Scatabrain Member

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    Very few solve the cube. You learn the algorithm that a few figured out.

    Just like learning the guitar. A few are truly special and everyone else copies them.
     
  9. Bogner

    Bogner Member

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    I wonder if the thought on this would be the same if there were no social media etc. Are there more amazing players or are we just now more aware of amazing players due to the internet?
     
  10. thecornman

    thecornman Member

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    The problem with guitar is it is not the be all end all when it comes to creating good music like so many people have thought it was for so long! It is just one of many instruments out there and totally not necessary when it comes to creating and playing good music. I don't think anyone is doing themselves any favours thinking it is.
     
  11. Tim Bowen

    Tim Bowen Member

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    I don't disagree, in theory. However...

    We are an obsequious, quarterback-adulating society. The concept of teamwork is severely diminished. The individual's name on the marquee is the goal. It's about the individual.

    I don't currently hear so much of iconic writing teams like Leiber/Stoller, Lennon/McCartney, Bacharach/David, Taupin/John, Page/Plant, Whitfield/Strong.

    There are several problems currently with the word 'literal'. Certain concepts have been beaten into our collective consciousness with such fervor that we have come to buy into them to a fault.

    It's all about the song. The only pieces that truly matter are the vocalist and the writer. The artist supersedes the musician.


    Great ideas, whence good things came, but ultimately taken far too literally. So much is lost along the way, often including great arrangement.

    For the life of me, other than for sheer, unadulterated love of a particular instrument, I really can't imagine why anyone would pursue a career as a sideman in 2017, other than for those who are already quite well established. Otherwise, it no longer makes any practical sense.

    So I see bands fronted by guitar players, sometimes pretty great guitar players. Guitar players also singing and fronting and also writing songs. Okay singers and okay songs. Sometimes. Often not.

    Usually, I'd rather hear these guys doing what they do best, as part of a great team, where others are also doing what they do best, like maybe writing or singing or arranging. Aristotle's 'the whole is greater than the sum of its parts'. But fronting and/or being the writer are the only practical choices. In practical terms, there's nothing other than love to motivate someone to be a great sideman/sidewoman. It simply makes no sense anymore, if indeed it ever did, or it at least seems to be the opposite of pragmatic within the modern world. The rewards are simply too small.



    I don't blame those guys fronting that might musically be more effective as part of a great team. It's been pounded into our heads that all else is disposable, so why wouldn't guys trying to make a career or a living or a name, buy the concept. If it's not an ego decision, it's often a practical decision.
     
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  12. sahhas

    sahhas Supporting Member

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    it's hard to gauge the problem, other than the fact that the world has changed so much since the heyday of EVH/LZ/Beatles (whoever you want to plug in there)....
    I suppose you could say it's easier to "create yourself" w/ the internet and all....but it's hard to rise to the top when their are so many out there...and with that of course the support of music has changed...labels....radio...other media (MTV)....even magazines (print, ie: other thread about GP cover story)....

    I would like to think that somehow "Good Music" will find it's way to the top (or to the masses somehow)...but the funniest thing to me is i've been listening to REM, a lot of their music from the mid-80s, that back in the day, i never gave much thought....so go figure....
     
  13. CactusWren

    CactusWren Member

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    Is it about the songs, or the idols? There may be tons of great songs out there, but the players aren't put on the pedestal they once were. When I was in high school, I wanted to be Kirk Hammett and have an ESP, not because he was the greatest, but because he was the lead guitarist of Metallica! And OP, it was only a few years back that I would have people come up to me and say, "Do you know that guy who plays at the Hyatt? He's the best guitarist in the world!" (Talking about Esteban, believe it or not)

    Compare: Andres Segova, classical guitar idol of the 20th century. Not really a tremendously great player. But hugely influential because of the platform he'd carved out for himself, an opportunity which at that time existed and he seized. He was an idol.

    To: Any concert guitarist of today, 2X as good at least.
     
  14. aldridt1

    aldridt1 Member

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    Van Halen, Yingwie.....two living legends......where are the great tunes???? Yeah, I know......might as well Jump....JUMP. Thanks for making my point for me :)

    I think we kid ourselves about the tunes. Beck, Vai, EVH, Malmsteen, Eric Johnson, etc etc.....where are the hit songs? Where are the songs that will live forever? Malmsteen had one or two albums in the 80s debut at number 1 on the billboard album charts. And there were no hit songs. Zero. And he is still relevant today, and still selling records with no hits songs, and still filling seats in venues all over the world.

    I don't think there are more great guitarists. I think there are less great guitarists. Look who sits atop the mountain.....Hendrix, Page, Beck, EVH, Vai, Malsteen, etc. etc. etc. No one has come along yet to knock these guys off the list. No one has even come close, really.

    I don't think the guitar will ever be dead. It is too cool and too versatile.
     
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  15. ivers

    ivers Member

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    The ironic thing here is that lack of «feel» is such a tired and old cliche to dismiss something with.
     
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  16. thecornman

    thecornman Member

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    Could not agree more! Not everyone feels old, tired, depressed, miserable and that life has done them wrong. I can't help, but think the lack of feel thing is just a coup out for people that don't have the skill and technique.
     
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  17. mattball826

    mattball826 Member

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    Problem for me is I find too many copycats and not enough originality. Ohh lookie... another dude playing a cover! How amazing is that!!

    To me it's one of hundreds out there... so meh

    I think there are just too few original artists to inspire anyone younger. They seem to avoid guitar because it's people jamming stuff 30-60 years old. That would have been like me as a teen going wow, listen to them play that 40's music...

    Fortunately, as kids growing up we had new artists coming out all the time. All this retro-ness has stagnated progress
    The only real guitar rock today is Burrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Gwaaaahhhhhh rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrhhhhhhhhhh metal, or a few guys that just emulate the tap wizardry of past artists. While amazing as it may be, it just doesn't ever hit main stream media outlets other than a local college station perhaps. Lady Gaga and Taylor Swift would have been filed in the David Cassidy, Leif Garret, piles fwiw.
     
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  18. Hawx

    Hawx Member

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    If they don't write good music it's all meaningless. I'm an 18 year old who goes to guitar school and I'm surrounded by players, at the end of the day I'm interested in who makes the best sounds and plays the best parts, not the insane shredders.
     
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  19. Ubersooner

    Ubersooner Member

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    C++ is an automation code used by many electronic composers using Csound. I was referencing the time and effort electronic composers put into mastering code rather than a traditional instrument.
     
  20. dczay

    dczay Gold Supporting Member

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    Well said. I would also add that the great ones (or at least the very good ones) are able to be "heard" in the morass of the sheer volume of (music) product. Having a unique voice in terms of musical presentation of one's self, expression and creativity seems to be the most elusive quality. Pick any musician/band you love, it only takes a few notes to know exactly who they are........... That is priceless.
     
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