The pro's use rack's, I don't get it. Help me understand a few thing.

Tibbonds

Member
Messages
1,046
I'm seriously thinking about putting a rack togetherl I've got an M13 and some other pedals I run along with it, and I LOVE the tones I get from my rigl But I'm drawn to racking them all with a preamp and poweramp because I just love the idea of being able to press one switch that will change multiple things across the rig instantly. Presets are a real blessing, live.

A rack rig would also make transporting and setting up a rig much easier. Connect the midi controllet and my guitar and it's done.
 

JackJordan

Member
Messages
1,357
^ I agree 100%, I am hoping to put together a rack just for my pedals! Though I would look into rack effects as well... there goes my money! :cool:
 

Lolaviola

Supporting Member
Messages
8,456
Haha I haven't checked this thread in a long time. I never thought it would get this popular! What was it you wanted to know about my Gibson RD?
Did you ever go rack?
I was wondering what kind of pickups you are using. I recently got my RD back from my brother after a looong time. I took out the active, and put some Fralin P-92's. Hmmm, not quite round and beefy enough. On second thought, I'll try some Fralin High Output humbuckers. Again, not quite. So I settled on some uncovered humbuckers, wound kinda normal. (7.3, 8.7)
And WOW! I'm finally hearing my guitar again! Very much like my Telecaster, but with more beef and brawn. My RD is all maple.
 

Cirrus

Member
Messages
2,438
^ I agree 100%, I am hoping to put together a rack just for my pedals! Though I would look into rack effects as well... there goes my money! :cool:
This is what I'm doing right now - two gcx's with two signal chains going out into seperate amps, with two drawers of pedals. Just waiting for the rack flightcase to arrive, should be here thursday. I'm excited! :beer
 

rhythmrocker

1966 Battle of the Bands
Silver Supporting Member
Messages
2,880
Originally Posted by rhythmrocker
Hey Zackman . . .
Wouldn't the Musicomlab efxmkii work as a foot controller where you can plug a wah and fuzz into it on the floor?


Plug a Wah and fuzz into two of its loops on the back; the Wah and fuzz could be turned on from their positions in the Musicom loops, right? Use the Musicom program/control functions to trigger a switcher (e.g. a Switchblade);

So guitar > Switchblade > routes signals through triggered "shelved" pedals and/or rack units (e.g.Digitech GSP1101) > out to front end of amp.

DO I have this right?
Yes you could do that, BUT-- The main things I notice is that there is no MIDI return on the Musicom, so getting the MIDI preset control to the Musicom from your Switchblade may present an issue, and the Musicom is rather limited in it's ability transmit MIDI, compared to the Switchblade. According to the specs: It can only transmit 2 MIDI Program Changes on 2 MIDI channels and 8 MIDI Control Changes on the appointed MIDI channel. Depending on your system requirements, this may not be enough.

The Switchblade's loops are all buffered, and not switchable (I mean you can't turn the buffers on/off-- last I checked), so you wouldn't want a Germanium based Fuzz in the loops of the Switchblade-- it wouldn't work as it would traditionally. Depending on how you're routing your pedals though, you could plug guitar into the Musicom, out of the musicom into the the Switchblade and then back out to your amp, but again, the rack processor's signals aren't going to give you the intended maximum capable results-- going into the front of an amp, because 'Generally' Rack gear wants a line level signal to operate as designed, and while it's true that most have a -10dB/+4dB capability, most pedals are designed to take instrument level (around -30dB) signals, and may be easily driven into to clipping. (Some more susceptible than others) I find that the EHX Memory man delay is one such pedal. The Switchblade is a VERY cool unit and likely has a way to contend w/ the levels. I don't have any direct experience with the Switchblade. Perhaps someone will chime in, who does.

Rack processors are typically NOT happiest going into the front of your amp. I HIGHLY suggest trying it though, because it will provide you the frame of reference for comparison to help determine works 'BEST' for you.
Doing it that way, all you are processing is your guitar pickups' signal and whatever pedals, before you hit your amp's input. Rack processors (IMO) give a 'Better' result when they process your guitar through your amp's signal. Again... Try it both ways, and hear for yourself, then decide based on YOUR preference, not my word or anyone else.

I think Zachman you mis-understood so let me try and ask this - if the musicom were used as a controller, it would send PC/CC to the Switchblade so I don't see the issue when using it that way (you stated since the Musicom didn't have a midi return, there would be a problem.)
This way, a couple of fuzzes could be put on the board with the Musicom and a wah > switchblade > other pedals in a drawer. The Switchblade would act only to activate the pedals in the drawer and any rack effect. The Musicom would be used to trigger a fuzz or two on a pedalboard AND to send command to the Switchblade whcih in turn would turn on/off/bypass the pedals in the drawer. I know this is an expensive way to go, but seems right and has tons of flexibility.

Let me know if I have this right and if you have any other comments; appreciated.
 

zachman

Senior Member
Messages
3,604
Originally Posted by rhythmrocker
Hey Zackman . . .
Wouldn't the Musicomlab efxmkii work as a foot controller where you can plug a wah and fuzz into it on the floor?


Plug a Wah and fuzz into two of its loops on the back; the Wah and fuzz could be turned on from their positions in the Musicom loops, right? Use the Musicom program/control functions to trigger a switcher (e.g. a Switchblade);

So guitar > Switchblade > routes signals through triggered "shelved" pedals and/or rack units (e.g.Digitech GSP1101) > out to front end of amp.

DO I have this right?



I think Zachman you mis-understood so let me try and ask this - if the musicom were used as a controller, it would send PC/CC to the Switchblade so I don't see the issue when using it that way (you stated since the Musicom didn't have a midi return, there would be a problem.)
This way, a couple of fuzzes could be put on the board with the Musicom and a wah > switchblade > other pedals in a drawer. The Switchblade would act only to activate the pedals in the drawer and any rack effect. The Musicom would be used to trigger a fuzz or two on a pedalboard AND to send command to the Switchblade whcih in turn would turn on/off/bypass the pedals in the drawer. I know this is an expensive way to go, but seems right and has tons of flexibility.

Let me know if I have this right and if you have any other comments; appreciated.
The only thing I would be skeptical of is the routing of the rack gear to the front of the amp (Pedals, yes). I would route the rack gear to the amp's loop return or w/d via a separate power amp.

Looks to me like You got it... :beer
 

DannyG

Member
Messages
245
With what you're using and dong, a power conditioner isn't necessary but how are you powering your pedals? If just using a battery then no ou're fine. Any decent pedal power supply will do the same filtering a power comditioner does.
I use a rack system. I have a midi switching system that will turn on/off any pedal in any combination and switch channels in the amp with the press of one preset footswitch button on a midi contoller. No tap dancing onsatge. I can set banks up with songs in a set or siimply set them up with common combinations.
It's very simple, organized and convenient.
 

zachman

Senior Member
Messages
3,604
With what you're using and dong, a power conditioner isn't necessary but how are you powering your pedals? If just using a battery then no ou're fine. Any decent pedal power supply will do the same filtering a power comditioner does.
DannyG-- Well THAT is FANTASTIC news... Which ones, provide these specs?

Furman P-1800 PFR

Features:

Linear Filtering Technology (LiFT)

Series Multi-Stage Protection (SMP)

Automatic Extreme Voltage Shutdown (E.V.S.)

15 Amp/1800 watt rating, with circuit breaker

Rear BNC connector for optional gooseneck light to illuminate rear of rack

Isolated outlet banks minimize inter-component interference and noise contamination

Wall wart spacing

USB Charger

Secure Straps for wall warts

Power Factor Technology supplies 45+ amps of instantaneous reserve current on demand for power starved amplifiers.

Clear Tone Technology provides tuned filtering circuits engineered for instrument amplifier to provide a clean and consistent tone.

Large digital voltmeter with discrete dimmer button displays incoming line voltage.

Three isolated outlet banks minimizes inter-component interference and noise contamination.

* Surge Protection
Furman's exclusive SMP technology provides the highest level of surge & spike protection available.
* Noise Filtration
LiFT offers AC power filtering to ensure clean power for unequaled audio & video clarity.
Voltage Protection
* Advanced EVS circuitry detects dangerous voltage irregularities and safely powers down itself and connected equipment in unsafe conditions. Diagnostic Lights
LED status indicators warn you when voltage is outside of nominal range or when protection has been compromised.
* Power Factor Technology
Power Factor Technology supplies 45+ amps of instantaneous reserve current, on demand, for power starved amplifiers.
* Clear Tone Technology
Clear Tone Technology provides tuned filtering circuits engineered for instrument amplifiers to provide a clean and consistent tone.
* Voltmeter / Ammeter
Large digital voltmeter / ammeter, with discrete dimmer button, displays line votlage and true RMS current draw.
* Isolated Banks
Isolated outlet banks minimize inter-component interference and noise contamination.
* Wall Wart Spacing
Three widely spaced outlets accommodate bulky AC power transformers.
* 15 AMP Rating
15 Amp rating featuring a high inrush magnetic circuit breaker for added protection.
* Nine Total Outlets
Nine total outlets (8 rear panel outlets and one front panel convenience outlet).
* BNC Lamp Connector
Rear panel BNC connector powers any standard gooseneck lamp for rear rack illumination.
* USB Charger
Front panel USB convenience outlets allows you to charge most media devices or power a USB lamp.

Specifications

Maximum Output Current: 15 amps @ 124 volts
Line Cord: Captive 3/14 AWG, 10 ft. black cord with NEMA 15 plug
BNC Socket w/Switch: 12VAC 500MA maxx (lamp not included)
Operating Voltage: 90 to 139 VAC
Over-Voltage Shutdown: 140 VAC Nominal
Spike Protection Mode: Line to neutral, zero ground leakage
Spike Clamping Voltage: 188 VAC peak @ 3,000 Amps
Response Time: 1 nanosecond
Maximum Surge Current: 6,500 Amps
Noise Attenuation: 30 dB @ 2 kHz, 40 dB @ 10 kHz, 50 dB @ 20 kHz, 70 dB @ 100 kHz
Dimensions: 19" W x 12" D x 1.75" H
Weight: 13 lbs.
Power Consumption: 8 watts
Reactive Power: 460 VA
 

rhythmrocker

1966 Battle of the Bands
Silver Supporting Member
Messages
2,880
DannyG-- Well THAT is FANTASTIC news... Which ones, provide these specs?

Furman P-1800 PFR

Features:

Linear Filtering Technology (LiFT)

Series Multi-Stage Protection (SMP)

Automatic Extreme Voltage Shutdown (E.V.S.)

15 Amp/1800 watt rating, with circuit breaker

Rear BNC connector for optional gooseneck light to illuminate rear of rack

Isolated outlet banks minimize inter-component interference and noise contamination

Wall wart spacing

USB Charger

Secure Straps for wall warts

Power Factor Technology supplies 45+ amps of instantaneous reserve current on demand for power starved amplifiers.

Clear Tone Technology provides tuned filtering circuits engineered for instrument amplifier to provide a clean and consistent tone.

Large digital voltmeter with discrete dimmer button displays incoming line voltage.

Three isolated outlet banks minimizes inter-component interference and noise contamination.

* Surge Protection
Furman's exclusive SMP technology provides the highest level of surge & spike protection available.
* Noise Filtration
LiFT offers AC power filtering to ensure clean power for unequaled audio & video clarity.
Voltage Protection
* Advanced EVS circuitry detects dangerous voltage irregularities and safely powers down itself and connected equipment in unsafe conditions. Diagnostic Lights
LED status indicators warn you when voltage is outside of nominal range or when protection has been compromised.
* Power Factor Technology
Power Factor Technology supplies 45+ amps of instantaneous reserve current, on demand, for power starved amplifiers.
* Clear Tone Technology
Clear Tone Technology provides tuned filtering circuits engineered for instrument amplifiers to provide a clean and consistent tone.
* Voltmeter / Ammeter
Large digital voltmeter / ammeter, with discrete dimmer button, displays line votlage and true RMS current draw.
* Isolated Banks
Isolated outlet banks minimize inter-component interference and noise contamination.
* Wall Wart Spacing
Three widely spaced outlets accommodate bulky AC power transformers.
* 15 AMP Rating
15 Amp rating featuring a high inrush magnetic circuit breaker for added protection.
* Nine Total Outlets
Nine total outlets (8 rear panel outlets and one front panel convenience outlet).
* BNC Lamp Connector
Rear panel BNC connector powers any standard gooseneck lamp for rear rack illumination.
* USB Charger
Front panel USB convenience outlets allows you to charge most media devices or power a USB lamp.

Specifications

Maximum Output Current: 15 amps @ 124 volts
Line Cord: Captive 3/14 AWG, 10 ft. black cord with NEMA 15 plug
BNC Socket w/Switch: 12VAC 500MA maxx (lamp not included)
Operating Voltage: 90 to 139 VAC
Over-Voltage Shutdown: 140 VAC Nominal
Spike Protection Mode: Line to neutral, zero ground leakage
Spike Clamping Voltage: 188 VAC peak @ 3,000 Amps
Response Time: 1 nanosecond
Maximum Surge Current: 6,500 Amps
Noise Attenuation: 30 dB @ 2 kHz, 40 dB @ 10 kHz, 50 dB @ 20 kHz, 70 dB @ 100 kHz
Dimensions: 19" W x 12" D x 1.75" H
Weight: 13 lbs.
Power Consumption: 8 watts
Reactive Power: 460 VA
Hey zachman, was talking with ScottL-he uses an AR1215 and no power conditioner; doesn't find it necessary. Of course the advantage there is not have that additional weight with something like a rack/power factor pro.

In your opinion, is the 1215 sufficient for club gigs? thanks.
 

zachman

Senior Member
Messages
3,604
Hey zachman, was talking with ScottL-he uses an AR1215 and no power conditioner; doesn't find it necessary. Of course the advantage there is not have that additional weight with something like a rack/power factor pro.

In your opinion, is the 1215 sufficient for club gigs? thanks.
Scott L (Lerner) is a super cool guy and an amazing player, but perhaps he doesn't know that (according to Furman), "The AR-1215 also features power conditioning that is truly in a class by itself, thanks to the quantity, quality and configuration of the overvoltage suppression devices used. These include MOV's, high voltage inductors and capacitors, and precise high-inrush magnetic circuit breakers. This unique combination can safely divert large spikes as well as filter audible high frequency noise".

Yes, imo- the 1215 is sufficient for small club gigs.

Get one of these and plug in all of your multi-outlet strips, as an alternative:




The Classic Series PL-8C power conditioner- from Furman $179 here:
http://www.revolutionpower.com/p/Furman+PL-8+C+Classic+Power+Conditioner/20/


(This pic is of the newest version)







features Furman’s revolutionary Series Multi-Stage Protection (SMP), Linear Filtering Technology (LiFT), and Extreme Voltage Shutdown (EVS).
 

zachman

Senior Member
Messages
3,604
always fun to see the rackusers here on the internet bringing their racks and amps to these minibars and houseparties playing for 50 people.

More fridges for less people yeah !
Couldn't help it. I had to respond to this condescending comment by illustrating reality:

Here is me using the rack and amps NOT at a mini bar gig playing to 50 people

 

Blues Wail

Member
Messages
2,862
Couldn't help it. I had to respond to this condescending comment by illustrating reality:

Here is me using the rack and amps NOT at a mini bar gig playing to 50 people


Hey Zach! Long time! Fantastic my friend.:cool: I hope all is well!

Aldo............
TGIH! :p
 

Blues Wail

Member
Messages
2,862
A L O H A... Great to hear from you. All is well, and I hope for you too.
Keep rawkin!! Life for me is a bit hard at this point. Lori & I have divorced after a 24 years together. It has been 14 months & I am reeling still but starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Take care,
Aldo........
 

zachman

Senior Member
Messages
3,604
Keep rawkin!! Life for me is a bit hard at this point. Lori & I have divorced after a 24 years together. It has been 14 months & I am reeling still but starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Take care,
Aldo........
PM sent
 

rhythmrocker

1966 Battle of the Bands
Silver Supporting Member
Messages
2,880
Maybe this will help me on the Musicom - can you send program changes from the Musicomlab controller to a midi device (like the Switchblade or DSP101) AND to one of the Musicom loops simultaneously (i.e. push one button)? For example, turn on a fuzz connected to the musicom and a rack delay connected to the Switchblade's send/return?
 

zachman

Senior Member
Messages
3,604
Maybe this will help me on the Musicom - can you send program changes from the Musicomlab controller to a midi device (like the Switchblade or DSP101) AND to one of the Musicom loops simultaneously (i.e. push one button)? For example, turn on a fuzz connected to the musicom and a rack delay connected to the Switchblade's send/return?
Should be able to.... See if you can download the manual, and find out how many MIDI CC and PC messages can be sent simultaneously per preset, and how many banks and presets per bank- the Musicom deals with.
 




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