The 'Thru-Zero' Lounge

Discussion in 'Effects, Pedals, Strings & Things' started by PhuzzphayzZ, Dec 23, 2019.

  1. Sam Xavier

    Sam Xavier Member

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    Mr Black Shepard's End does a sweet TZ. It's also a really nice sounding barber pole flanger, too, hence the name.
     
  2. jwny72

    jwny72 Member

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    I've been searching for TZF sounds ala "House Burning Down" from Electric Ladyland forever, and I've bought and sold a lot of flanger pedals. I'm particularly interested in the analog ones. Excepting the Foxrox, I've had all of them that I know of (Mod Zero, Flanger Hoax, Spectre). An issue I encountered with all of them was a perceived volume drop when engaging the effect set for negative polarity through zero flanging. The effect is very good mind you, but the volume drop precluded bringing the effect in and out as a momentary effect.

    The Foxrox unit gets around the problem by having envelope control, so picking attack triggers the flanging. I wish I had $700 for a flanger pedal.

    I currently have the Spectre on my board. It's got great sounds in it. I haven't mastered the dip-switches though, and it can do a lot that I don't know how to make it do. I hesitated to pull the trigger on it for a long time because all demos I found failed to demonstrate any Hendrix emulations; it was all whale sounds. I'm glad I bought it though, because it sounds great with fuzz and wah. Just great for Hendrix sounds.
     
  3. Morgancograve

    Morgancograve Member

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    don’t discount the digital drive on the DECO. It’s one of the nicest sounding cool overloading preamp type I’ve heard. It’s such a great pedal. Can be so many things. Slap back, chorus, flange, boost, overdrive. Worth its admission price.
     
  4. PhuzzphayzZ

    PhuzzphayzZ Member

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    Could you Post the "Hendrix" settings you've tailored please. I am frustrated that none of the product demos, or the products themselves, seem to emphasize the connection with a bolder pen. ONLY THE YOUNG MAN Hessenius video accurately portrays what we're all talking about here- that I've heard so far (not that much to choose from it seems). He's using Deco- I'm ASSuming that any one of the pedals under consideration can mimic the exact tempo and sweep narrative, it's just that I haven't heard them do it yet.

    AGAIN, WE DO NEED A HENDRIX TZF SHOOTOUT!
     
    dirtytony likes this.
  5. PhuzzphayzZ

    PhuzzphayzZ Member

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    You know how to talk to me, Deco not discounted! ;) It's just that I tend to like to have separate boxes for most all things. I would totally get a nano jet-flange just for the momentary woosh (with ZeroPoint not gonna happen), and use the CarlMartinClassicFlange for chorus, and TZFlange for TZF.

    Out of the TZF "specific" pedals there's only Tunnelworm and ZeroPoint? Didn't author Jack state that he's made 5! TZF circuits?

    Seriously, I feel like the Barney Fife of Fuzz! lol
     
    chrismellotron likes this.
  6. Buddy67

    Buddy67 Member

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  7. PedalCrazyFool

    PedalCrazyFool Member

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    I’ve wanted a Hoax Flanger for years now. It’s the kind of pedal you can get lost in for hours, days, even years, really.

    I’ll check Reverb for a good used one after we recover from Christmas spending!
     
    whateverdude likes this.
  8. Tootone

    Tootone Member

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    A lot of the Thru Zero sound has to do with how close the wet and dry signal get to each other in terms of delay/lag.

    At the thru-zero, the lag is 0ms... i.e. no lag, momentarily.

    If you have a "normal" flanger that can get down to say 0.2ms lag... then you've got 99.98% of that sound.

    Boss BF3.... yes folks. The humble purple box.

    Anyways... the other factor is slow rate... to "savour" the effect.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2019
    Squatch57 likes this.
  9. jwny72

    jwny72 Member

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    I'll try to get around to taking an iPhone video of it and upload that to give you a taste. I've never taken video of myself and uploaded it before, so I'll need to fumble through the steps.
     
    dirtytony likes this.
  10. Tootone

    Tootone Member

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    Some relevance....

    Flanger BBD Delay Ranges

    The Strymon Mobius has a +/- Thru Zero Flanger which operates by delaying both Dry and Wet, similar method in Chase Bliss and TZF as far as I am aware.

    The CBread, from what I can see is a momentary Flanger.... hit and hold foot switch to trigger... heading towards zero, or away from zero... still... a good faux emulation.

    Highly recommend anyone to research and actually find out what Through Zero really is and how it works (historically). Also, what it actually sounds like and how it was used (historically). Also, don't just go buy a TZ pedal because you think:-
    a) Its Trendy
    b) You think its better than a normal (electronic) flanger.
    c) You'll need it a lot.
     
    Squatch57 and johnetone like this.
  11. dirtytony

    dirtytony Member

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    thanks Santa :beer:aok

    (merry xmas to everyone)
     
  12. gijoe

    gijoe Member

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    This sounds pretty good. Mr Black Tunnelworm

     
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  13. David MacNeill

    David MacNeill Supporting Member

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    Damn you. Now I have to buy a Deco.
     
  14. Fantastic cook

    Fantastic cook Member

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    I'm really happy with my Pyramids. Does the thru-zero thing very well, plus a whole lot more. Expression, tap tempo, momentary and latching, presets, and stereo in/outs. I highly recommend it. Here's Andy Martin's demo of it, showing just a fraction of what it is capable of.

     
  15. PhuzzphayzZ

    PhuzzphayzZ Member

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    I'm going to try TZF with my old Boss GT-6, LOL!

    TZF = 2 modulation devices at 100% wet, kill dry?

    Let me see if I can't gear up the Flanger and Chorus-

    a) the Flanger has a 'Separation' control, and the Chorus has a 'millisecond' control, so how far apart are they spaced, and how close is the first modulation in milliseconds to the dry source- 2?

    b) are the Rates the same and only the lag time is different, or...??...

    IT CAN BE DONE... CAN IT?!!!?!!!
     
  16. lefort_1

    lefort_1 Nuzzled Firmly Betwixt Gold Supporting Member

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    Well theoretically yes, BUT

    (using your GT-6 example... I dunno if it'll do this, but)

    Kill the dry on both your Chorus and Flange.
    Run them IN PARALLEL (it will not work if they are in series). again, I don't know if a GT-6 can do parallel effects.

    To get TZF You need one longer 'delay' (that would be the Chorus, e.g. 10 msec, with almost NO LFO motion)
    and one shorter delay (the Flange, ALSO STARTing at 5 msec, but having a WIDE LFO taking it out to 15 msec.)
    (yes, your 'stable' chorus can have a little LFO motion, but it needs to be as little as possible)
    That will give you a not-so-wild Flange with 5 msec excursions before and after.

    Bottom Line:
    To get the TZF effect, your wide-excursion signal needs to go to a point BOTH before AND after the 'stable' one.
     
    fakeox likes this.
  17. LPSupreme11

    LPSupreme11 Member

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    Huge negative polarity, full cancellation TZF sound fan here. Does the Spectre actually do this well? A full signal cancelation?


    I have yet to hear / see a demo of this. Care to record a simple iPhone demo?
     
    johnetone likes this.
  18. LPSupreme11

    LPSupreme11 Member

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    Huge negative polarity, full cancellation TZF sound fan here. Does the Spectre actually do this well? A full signal cancelation?


    I have yet to hear / see a demo of this. Care to record a simple iPhone demo?
     
  19. Buddy67

    Buddy67 Member

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    I’ll record something tomorrow. In the meantime here’s Joel setting the zero point. Worth noting is that the fuzz he’s using is very zippery which is perhaps not the best to demonstrate with, and that he has the rate knob (bottom left) at noon- I set mine at 9 so the cancellation gets more drawn out. Also he moves the regen knob to noon (top right) so it’s getting a bit whale sounding- I keep mine at 9.
    Finally, if you put the zero knob clockwise past the spot where it cancels, you’ll get cancellation twice per cycle as it goes up and back down past the zero point (ie, the modulated delay line is now before the unmodulated one).
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2019
  20. Tootone

    Tootone Member

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    Here's tip for getting TZ type sounds on a Standard Flanger.

    Set Manual High (lowest delay)
    Set Depth Lowish... short sweep.
    Set Rate very low.... long cycle time.
    Set Regen off or very low.*

    Long cycle, low depth means the sweep still gets drawn out... you get long slow sweep.

    *The Regen control on electronic flangers was "introduced" as a faux "through zero" swoosh as heard on original tape flanging techniques... which is the dry and wet creating very narrow band combfilters as the lag was so small (tapes almost, but not quite, in sync). The Regen feeds some of the BBD output back to the input, creating pseudo random lags between the wet, the fed-back wet and the dry.

    Anyways, with short lag or through-zero, regen isn't really needed to create a swoosh, but no harm in using it to enhance or go crazy.

    The Boss BF3, with its digital delay line, lets the lag get down to ~0.2ms, so it's possible to get "aural trickery" through zero, as the wet sweeps down to very near zero and back up again.

    I use this for a couple of Queen songs. Also, the BF3 has a "Momentary" mode, where the flanger triggers from the same point whenever you hit and hold the footswitch... I use this for the bridge in Life In The Fast Lane.
     

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