the truth about vinyl

tnvol

Ufologist
Messages
6,395
I love my iPod....>20K songs in my shirt pocket!

But it just can't "clean weed" like Yessongs or The White Album or All Things Must Pass... :)
Get a Galaxy Note. It's more than big enough to clean your weed and will hold 20k songs.
 

rwmct

Member
Messages
2,801
I love vinyl but refuse to drop all that $ on my favorite albums again.
Again? Lol, I don't need to buy any again. I never got rid of them from when I bought them back in the day, except of course for the inevitable one's I lent out and never got back.

I would not buy anything new in vinyl, but I spin the old one's once in a while. Reminds me of when an album was really a collection of songs meant to be heard together.
 

Thedude99

Member
Messages
2,276
The major flaw in your post is DINERO! Now explain to the folks how much money one needs to spend to have digital that sounds better than VInyl I can put an awesome system together with used craigslist products for less than 800. Isn't that what a good dac costs?
I don’t have a lot of experience with DAC’s to say for sure. But my friend brought over an AudioQuest DragonFly Red which retails for $199. We played Tidal’s highest format and it sounded pretty phenomenal.

Also, if you want to go the CD route, you can buy some audiophile grade CD players with high quality DAC’s for next to nothing used now. I have one (that I bought new for far to much money in the early 2000’s) that can be had for under $200 used. It sounds fantastic.

I wouldn’t say either sound better than vinyl though (which is what I use my system for). It sounds different. Better would be up to personal preference.

Both of the digital options I mentioned sound light years better than streaming Spotify through the Sonos Connect I have hooked up to the same stereo.
 

teleman1

Supporting Member
Messages
14,834
I don’t have a lot of experience with DAC’s to say for sure. But my friend brought over an AudioQuest DragonFly Red which retails for $199. We played Tidal’s highest format and it sounded pretty phenomenal.

Also, if you want to go the CD route, you can buy some audiophile grade CD players with high quality DAC’s for next to nothing used now. I have one (that I bought new for far to much money in the early 2000’s) that can be had for under $200 used. It sounds fantastic.

I wouldn’t say either sound better than vinyl though (which is what I use my system for). It sounds different. Better would be up to personal preference.

Both of the digital options I mentioned sound light years better than streaming Spotify through the Sonos Connect I have hooked up to the same stereo.
I have done much of what you have. But I am done with Vinyl. It has a nicer sound than cd's/digtal. I just don't have the time patience or storage space/ I am selling my Vinyl and there is a lot of good quality cool stuff for some lucky vinyl adoring folks; not crap pressing like the new stuff.
 

Rockledge

Member
Messages
5,557
I used to spend insane money on MSFL, Nautalis, and Columbia special products half speed masters to get the higher frequency reproduction, the smoother lows, the clarity, and the less noise they offered, but they still had the tracking noise that combined with the music that colored it.
The first time I heard a CD I was ecstatic. Finally, music the way it was meant to be heard.
I still have some vinyl, only because there is rare stuff that cannot be found on CD, and of course some of the first albums I bought like my original Live At Leeds with all the original paperwork.
But CD quality blows vinyl away as far as sound reproduction capabilities. No tracking noise, no pops and clicks, and virtually no crosstalk with perfect clarity. And it doesn't sound like someone is frying bacon in the background.
I don't miss the massive vinyl collection I had one bit. CD all the way for me.
Second to CDs, Minidiscs work in a pinch.
 

Rockledge

Member
Messages
5,557
I have done much of what you have. But I am done with Vinyl. It has a nicer sound than cd's/digtal. I just don't have the time patience or storage space/ I am selling my Vinyl and there is a lot of good quality cool stuff for some lucky vinyl adoring folks; not crap pressing like the new stuff.
You can get the "warmth" of vinyl by just cutting the treble on your receiver back to the point where vinyl is insubstantial in being able to reproduce highs. Of course you won't have the tracking noise that also helps limit the albums frequencies.
 

Rimbaud/Rambo

Member
Messages
179
The funny thing is a big part of the reason I got (back) into was vinyl because it was so much cheaper than buying CD's.
Pretty much that.

I had no money, and music streaming (at least as something readily accessible, where you could choose what you listen to/not Pandora/not needing to scour dodgy blogspots to download albums wondering what else you were gonna get, though I totally did that, too) was in its relatively inchoate stages. But I could find records for $1 at Goodwill, occasionally just boxes of them that people would leave out on the street, and - when I wanted to splurge - things like Jobriath's records that were near impossible to get any other way (I think Moz had just done his Japanese-only CD compilation or something, but that was crazy expensive as an import). Seemed like a no-brainer as a way to listen to new (to me) music. And I just got hooked.

imo, vinyl definitely doesn't sound *better* than high quality digital music or CDs. But I've never been an audiophile (for listening to music, at least), and the physical limitations of vinyl (including the noise of the physical item being played back) give it a nice (perhaps more psychological than auditory) appeal... it's very much a physical thing, which has a kind of "cozy" quality to it. idfk.
 
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stickyFingerz

Supporting Member
Messages
2,411
Today's vinyl is pressed from digital masters and is VASTLY INFERIOR to high definition files or the vinyl records of old.

Under optimal conditions, a good pressing of a good analog master could sound better than the digital counterpart but the equipment required for playback (read turntable, arm, cartridge, stylus, RIAA phonostage and interconnects for all of the above) costs much more than what a equivalent digital setup does.

Then there's the issue of the availability of music - you need to source those records if indeed they exist. The record industry is propagating silly lies in its struggle to survive. Can't blame them for that, but I'm not buying into any of this silliness.

I have a few hundred LPs from the old days and a very good analog setup and had a state of the art digital setup. FWIW I think I have sufficient first-hand experience to form an opinion.
 

teleman1

Supporting Member
Messages
14,834
You can get the "warmth" of vinyl by just cutting the treble on your receiver back to the point where vinyl is insubstantial in being able to reproduce highs. Of course you won't have the tracking noise that also helps limit the albums frequencies.
When I was young, bass never seemed to be that much of an issue. In case you youngins don't know Subs didn't come in with popularity and regularity till the late 70's. BUt I have seen needle jump from too much bass
 

teleman1

Supporting Member
Messages
14,834
I don't think Vinyl looses but there is something aural more enjoyable listening to Vinyl. I even hear it in Nakamichi cassettes I recorded off of first play good quality vinyl. Sorry guys, it is there something better, but I lack for explanation of details why. But it looses because Digital finally got reasonable to listen to. The first years the internal dacs on CD"s sucked, and so did CD listening enjoyment. I got one of the first CD players on the market immediately. Vinyl reason for decline is more ergonomic, storage, maintenance, pops, clicks, and record ride make it a hard thing to hang on to. But there is romance and pleasure in for many, I can't deal with he others hassles anymore. I have heard $50,000 dollar stereos some 25 years ago. Its a freakin brain massage.
 
Messages
3,767
I have a decent size collection (~1200 records). I bought entire collections from people in the late 90’s when people were getting rid of them. I could probably shed 25-35% of them (and probably should).

I met a guy over the weekend at a hifi show that has 60k records. Damn.
There’s a guy on audio karma who once posted pictures of a finished basement loaded with rows and rows of records stacked to the ceiling. It like the warehouse at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark:eeks
 

MKB

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
8,121
I have a lot of vinyl and a pretty good homemade tube stereo with a killer table (VPI MkIII with Linn Basik arm), plus 70s vintage modded Klipsch speakers. Listening to vinyl can be a almost otherworldly experience, some music is so beautiful I cry like a baby. And there is something truly special about going on vinyl hunts, even browsing at the local Barnes and Nobles is a ton of fun. I try to buy new vinyl there every month just to support their efforts.

OTOH, most of my listening is with a headphone rig and a FLAC server, the headphone amp is a custom design with vacuum tubes from the 1930s and mosfet outputs. The server is a Raspberry Pi running Volumio, and a modified HiFi Berry DAC Plus Pro. Headphones are Audeze EL-8 closed back. The music from this rig, on FLACs ripped from standard CDs, is not as gorgeous and involving as vinyl on the big rig, but is certainly lush and satisfying. It's extremely pleasant across the board, and does all the audiophile stuff (imaging, timbral detail, dynamics, etc) great as well. And it doesn't wake up everyone in the house with the loud thunder.

In the end, the snarkiness of digital vs. analog is a waste of time. If your format rocks your world and you end up listening to tons of music, it doesn't matter if it is a $100K Levinson\Krell\Wilson rig, or a pocket AM radio. It's all good, isn't it?
 

runningman

Member
Messages
1,840
I'm still not sure what to think about about the resurgence of vinyl.

I dated a girl in high school who's dad was heavily into the audiophile thing--this was early '80s--so I know there are people who take this seriously.

Still, I can't help feeling that a lot of the resurgence is vaguely ironic.
 

redchapterjubilee

Supporting Member
Messages
1,255
I've been collecting records since I was a kid in the '70s. It's harder to find used deals these days but I love to waste time picking through record crates. I had an unexpected job loss at the end of 2005 that forced me to sell everything I had (every record, CD, the turntable...all of it) and then started from scratch again the next year. It's not NEARLY as fun to crate dig these days but I've been able to put maybe half of my collection back together again plus a bunch of records I didn't have before. I don't do it because they sound better necessarily. I like records. Easy enough. I have a project-based second job that I work from our basement a couple of nights or early mornings a week and I love to listen to records while I'm working on it. The rest of the time it's my iPod. Earlier this year I hotrodded my iPod Classic with 512GB of solid state memory.
 

Rockledge

Member
Messages
5,557
When I was young, bass never seemed to be that much of an issue. In case you youngins don't know Subs didn't come in with popularity and regularity till the late 70's. BUt I have seen needle jump from too much bass
Back then we didn't need subwoofers. Stereo speakers were designed to handle all the frequencies and a good pair of 3 way 12s or 3 way 16s would do it.
Speakers were intentionally designed to NOT have flat response like studio monitors do, in order to enhance the low end as well as make sure the center of the vocal range (1k) was not too pronounced or burried. And of course stereos came with a loudness control that was used to enhance frequencies that are lost during low volume listening.
Gear back then was great, it seems speaker makers and amp/receiver makers worked together so that the gear was all compatible.
I still have a pair of Realistic Optimus T-100 tower speakers that were nothing more than 2 10s and a tweeter, and the things could rattle the windows. They made speakers very efficient then, you didn't need 200 watts to drive them louder than you want, 35 watts would do the job nicely with a 5 band EQ. And if you had a 60 watt receiver and 4 efficient speakers, you couldn't stay in the room with it.
Also, now they try to make speakers like studio monitors, and studio monitors are tools, they are not for casual listening and sound like hell for home listening.

I used to put my turntables either on some kind of home made damper such as two pieces of plywood with foam between them, or a concrete or marble slab to isolate them and keep the rumble down. I also normally had it far enough away from the speakers that rumble type of feedback wasn't a problem until it was cranked up, which , the stone slab took care of that.

I know full well about the needle jumping from bass, I used an Audio Technica AT13EA cartridge and that thing would track at a gram, I always set it at a gram and a half. So I had to dampen the turntable with a slab. It didn't feed back too easily, but any minute shock would jog the needle out of the groove.
 
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