the truth about vinyl

Discussion in 'The Sound Hound Lounge' started by Radar, Sep 9, 2019.

  1. pickdropper

    pickdropper Supporting Member

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    That’s quite a resume. That, in and of itself, does not make this new product viable. There have been many weird hifi accessories over the years released by folks with prior success as engineers.

    But I’m an open minded guy. Is there a white paper on this device that I could read? I may be a touch skeptical, but I’ve been wrong enough in my lifetime that I could accept it again.
     
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  2. Rockledge

    Rockledge Member

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    [/QUOTE]
    Vinyl is prone to static, and how you set a turntable up has nothing to do with the fact that static attracts dust, and no matter how meticulous you are at setting up a turntable, dust noise is always a risk and happens. Tracking noise is just part of the sound of vinyl, again no matter how your turntable is adjusted. I know, I am a lifelong audiophile and had wonderful gear for playing albums before CDs came along and blew vinyl out of the water.
    The myth that vinyl is "warmer" is absurd. It is only "warmer" because vinyl is not capable of containing and conveying the frequencies that digital is capable of.

    Everything I ever got from Nautilus and Columbia was fantastic, and sounded far better than stock vinyl releases did. Either you have a huge imagination or you are reciting some rhetoric you read on the internet.
    Minidisc is a wonderful format. It does indeed color the sound some, being a digital compression format, but it works well and the way it colors the sound is quite pleasant. Most specifically it warms up the lows some. Aside from it is very editable, compact , and convenient.

    The whole fairy tale about vinyl being better is absurd. I was a vinyl collector and supplied dealers with vinyl for a long time, I was fanatical about it.
    But CDs sound far better, just like Half Speed Masters did, except they are far more capable of accomplishing what original master recordings did.
    CDs are far superior at reproducing the clarity, silence, and wide frequency range that running the cutting disc and the master , and using the original master instead of a copy, are.

    It amazes me the nonsense that those who enjoy pissing their money away on vinyl will buy into and recite.
    If you enjoy the rituals involved in the work it takes to maintain a vinyl collection, fine. I get that.
    But it doesn't sound better, or nearly as good as CDs. Vinyl is barely better than MP3s.
    Unless you have Nautilus or MFSL half speed masters. Which still aren't up to what CDs can do.
     
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  3. Tony Foran

    Tony Foran Member

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    I've had this "little" Yamaha Px-2 for 40 years.


    [​IMG]
     
  4. Rockledge

    Rockledge Member

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    The only ignorance is in those who believe all the read and no nothing of the history of audio gear other than that.

    Speakers of the past were not only not limited, they had much more realistic and smoother bass than the crap being made now.
    Subwoofers came into existence well before home theaters did. They were a limited market originally, most found them unnecessary because speakers were already highly efficient and could do the same thing.

    Realistic was not junk, at one time Radio Shack sold some of the best gear on the market before they became a toy store for those addicted to cell phones. Their speaker systems were some of the best on the market, and they acted as a test market for other brands, for example many of their recievers were actually rebranded Pioneer.

    Bose was the trailblazer whose designs and ideas were rapidly gobbled up by other makers who tried to make similar things as they could without infringement.
    Bose did not invent surround, nor did they invent 5.1, and I didn't say they did.
    What the did invent was the satellite system of speakers rather than full sized speakers that were previously used. Prior to Bose design the typical home theater had two full range speakers in the front and larger speakers in the back with a subwoofer. Bose changed all that with smaller speakers that could handle midrange better in the front and back and a very superior subwoofer.
    Again, a design that is now the standard.

    You just don't know what you are talking about, and I suspect you aren't old enough to have experienced gear the way it was during rock and during the time when audiophiles were numerous enough to keep a huge market for expensive gear going.
    Again, you post is nothing but a bunch of tired old ill informed rhetoric. Obviously containing information you are reciting and didn't actually experience yourself.
     
  5. Beano Addict

    Beano Addict Member

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    This is the first word on static you've written here. Again, instead of addressing the counterpoints with valid facts, you'd rather try to divert the conversation elsewhere to distract. Might work on others but not on me.

    FYI, only some formulations of vinyl can attract static. A good cork mat will address that which costs next to nothing. There are also anti-static guns which work but this isn't the way to address the problem permanently.

    Yeah, right. BS. Everything you say is false and absurd. Talking about Realistic speakers as if they were high-end and declaring they were great because they could rattle the windows is most definitely not what an audiophile would write. Those are laughable statements which contradict (yet again) your statements. No, you're not an audiophile, sorry. lol!

    As for tracking noise, a great cart will reduce it to such a degree that it cannot be heard by human ears when music is playing. Sorry you never experienced that.

    Nope. I have a much more extensive background in audio and far more knowledge about the matter than you'll ever have. I know in your world, that is impossible but almost everything you write on this board is laughably wrong and can be verified as being factually so.

    Nautilus rarely (if ever) got the real master tapes. They got dupes, safety copies, or Xnth-generation tapes. You can deny this however you want but that is what happened. They were pimped at audio shows and people drank the Kool-Aid just on their say so. Sorry you were duped.

    No audiophile would want compression in their chain. It's also a terribly limiting format which has been easily surpassed a quarter of a century ago in every way imaginable.

    None of that makes any sense whatsoever. There are dozens of pressings of some albums. Supplying dealers doesn't make you any more knowledgeable about the mastering process than you've demonstrated here. Mastering at half-speed has nothing to do with better sound quality. Theoretically, it would allow for some additional musical information to be imprinted onto the LP. In reality, that's all BS and counts for nothing. Bottom line is the source and mastering engineer are what matter. I highly doubt you know your way around any of that stuff which renders your thoughts on the matter completely moot and invalid. Apparently, you weren't fanatical enough to know any of this crucial info which explains your pattern of unfounded blanket statements.

    Again, this makes no sense. It certainly sounds like you have no idea how records are made.

    Again, you know nothing of what you write here.

    So let's recap. You say you're an audiophile but used crap equipment and praise a format (MiniDisc) that uses compression then dismiss MP3s. You state being fanatical about vinyl in years passed, yet are unfamiliar with how a record is actually cut, how half-speed mastering is pure marketing BS, are entirely ignorant of which mastering engineers are great and who isn't, which source was used, and mention vinyl barely sounds better than MP3s.

    There's so much ignorance in your posts that it's hard to know where to start educating you. I suggest you gain real-world experience with REAL high-end gear before writing complete nonsense as if you have any idea about what you're writing.
     
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  6. Beano Addict

    Beano Addict Member

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    Repeating what you wrote doesn't make it any less laughably wrong.

    Sure. Believe that if you will. My cart costs more than your whole system. There's a reason for that.

    You surely don't know the difference between a push-pull and SET amp, probably never owned a dedicated phono preamp, have never looked at matrix info of an LP, and I could go on. It's just pathetic how over your head you are and yet can never admit you don't know what you're talking about.
     
  7. pickdropper

    pickdropper Supporting Member

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    Just curious, what cart do you use?
     
  8. S. F. Sorrow

    S. F. Sorrow Member

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    What the heck is all this nonsense about records skipping? What are you guys doing to destoy them? They don't come from the factory with noise and pops either (though by the 80s pressings were sh*t if that's how you are judging them).
    I have over a thousand LPs and the only ones that skip are albums from when I was a wee kid of seven years old like the Partridge Family.
    I started taking care of LPs around the time I was 10 and those records still sound great.
     
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  9. alexanderplatz

    alexanderplatz Member

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    Whatever the sonic differences are, vinyl LPs were big enough to make the cover art interesting and a rewarding part of the whole experience.
     
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  10. Beano Addict

    Beano Addict Member

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    Dynavector XX2 MKII.
     
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  11. pickdropper

    pickdropper Supporting Member

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    Nice!

    It’s a lot better than my 17D2. I’d love to have an XX2.
     
  12. Tony Foran

    Tony Foran Member

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    By page 10, we''ll have the whole vinyl vs digital argument all settled. Oh, wait, it's being going on for almost 40 years. Never mind.
     
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  13. pickdropper

    pickdropper Supporting Member

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    I’ve had a couple of brand new records that were quite noisy. One in particular had tracking problems. Somewhat surprisingly, many of them cleaned up perfectly after a proper cleaning.
     
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  14. 71strat

    71strat Member

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    Its NOW NEW. Its been out 16 years.

    James has been DEAD, 6 years.

    He WON CES AWARD in 2003. vs 15,000 other Innovations.


    The CES Innovation Awards is an annual competition honoring outstanding design and engineering in consumer technology products.
     
  15. Badtone

    Badtone Supporting Member

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    This! Cleaning and care of vinyl is way more critical than many think. It's all part of the ritual for me, giving the disc a scrub before each play. With the occasional deep clean when needed I have well played vinyl that is remarkably noise free. I also have to add that when I upgraded my TT and cart a couple of years back it made a huge difference. And getting the alignment and VTA set right makes a big difference. I do A B tests with the same recordings, CD and vinyl, and my friends like the sound of vinyl. Is it better? Not necessarily. Do I like it better? Yes. YMMV
     
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  16. CharAznable

    CharAznable Member

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    For that price, I think I'll live with the Mathematical Flaw.
     
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  17. Beano Addict

    Beano Addict Member

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    Depends on what you're looking for. The 17D2 is more neutral-sounding but I wanted something with a luscious presentation. Definitely no ear fatigue with this bad boy! Before that, I had a 20X2L. Amazing cart for the money.

    Yep. I've had a bunch of friends and family members with preconceived notions about vinyl sit down. Once I dropped the needle, they were expecting the sound of a bowl of Rice Krispies, a nasal tinny sound, and the tonearm to bounce around. When they got hit with an engaging ear fatigue-free fun listening experience, they were convinced.

    Unfortunately, none of them are audiophiles and therefore won't ever spend the money to get that sort of sound but it was nevertheless interesting to see their reactions once they experienced the difference.
     
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  18. 71strat

    71strat Member

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    Heres the speakers they used in 2003 with Trinaural Processor.

    They won best speakers CES Award in 2002.


    The VMPS RM 40, under review here, won the BEST OF CES - 2002 award in the High End Audio category from Tech TV, a media arm of the Electronics Industry Association.


    The following year, the Ampzilla RM/X-Trinaural processor was exhibited driving three RM 40s, won Best of CES - 2003. Such awards, combined with an unbelievably low MSRP (for what you get), have made the VMPS RM 40 a long-standing favorite among audiophiles.

    [​IMG]
    Specifications

    • Two 1" Tweeters, Four 8" Neodymium Midrange Panels, Two 10" Woven Carbon Fiber Woofers

    • Nominal Impedance: 4 Ohms

    • - 3 dB at 24 Hz

    • Power Handling 500W

    • Bi-Wireable

    • Dimensions: 66" H x 12.5" W x 17" D

    • Weight: 240 lbs each

    • MSRP: $5,000/Pair USA Depending on Finish; $6,200/Pair for Review Units
    VMPS Audio
     
  19. Rockledge

    Rockledge Member

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    Over my head, sheeeesh...... you are a hoot Gomer.
    You consistently reciting the same rhetoric trying to justify to yourself that you piss money away because you fell for the sales pitch is the only thing laughable.
    And you haven't a clue what my vintage systems, of which I have five set up right now in various places on my property. are worth. You are just another cork sniffer trying to justify the basement full of wine bottles that have turned to vinegar.
    Chances are I was reading specs and knew about scratchings on the blank space on vinyl before you quit sh!tting the bed.
    Your very rude ill informed arrogance and bizarre sense of self importance doesn't make anything you have said true.
    Meanwhile the rest of the world accepts reality and moves on to better more convenient technology.

    As I say, I am a vinyl guy from WAY back, from when most albums were in mono. And an audiophile. And have been such all along. I learned decades ago how to separate the roses from the B.S. , and you are doing the same old thing, the rhetoric of trying to recite specs and analysis that is well beyond your comprehension. And as a result, obviously have fallen prey to it.

    I know, I once was there. I was the guy that was so wrapped up in the specs and the gear that enjoying the music came secondary to being a cork sniffer. And it is a dead end street with no rewards.
    Being so distracted by some ill conceived notion of "perfect sound" to the point where you can't enjoy the music without what you have been conned into perceiving as flaws completely bypasses the true purpose, and is the act of a fool trying to find the end of the rainbow.

    Keep hooking your oscilloscope up to your gear and watching the music disappoint your illusions while the rest of the world listens to music with great pleasure.
     
  20. Beano Addict

    Beano Addict Member

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    You're delusional, blowhard.

    Good thing I wasn't drinking anything as I would've done a spit take. Of all the people, that's quite rich! :spit

    Every time you paint yourself as a know-it-all about a topic I'm obviously far more knowledgeable about, I interject because I don't want anyone to actually believe your BS. The fact you have never addressed any counterpoint easily destroying your blanket statements speaks volume.

    You drive a Pinto and argue you know cars and a Porsche is a waste of money. Keep listening to your high-end Radio Shack gear, Mr Audiophile. LOL!
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019

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