the truth about vinyl

noley

Frequently Mistaken for Fabio
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While I certainly dig vinyl (and have quite a bit of it), I’m curious if the sales figures will continue to grow once it isn’t a hipster trend. It’s been popular with audiophiles for years, but that didn’t stop people from giving/throwing away their collections in be 90’s.

Maybe. :dunno That number is just new releases and re-releases. I would bet that more used records are being bought/sold than new.
 

pickdropper

I am Soldering Iron Man
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Maybe. :dunno That number is just new releases and re-releases. I would bet that more used records are being bought/sold than new.
Well, that was definitely the case back in the late 90's and early 2000's. In Chicago, there was always a healthy 2nd hand vinyl market. The prices were lower back then, however. ;-)

I hope that vinyl really has made a comeback, but I suspect it's nostalgia and hipster enthusiasm more than anything. I'd be totally fine with being wrong.
 

KHAN

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3,816
I moved on many years ago. Memories of youth, and the feeling of putting on records of my favorite artists and getting lost in the artwork are very strong and positive memories. My love for music and playing guitar were forged back then. But I have no interest in going back.

If you're in to it, have at it. All the criticism of each other for personal preference is just stupid.
 

teleman1

Supporting Member
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14,834
CDs absolutely have. They are in every way superior to vinyl. Bass is in stereo, better clarity, wider range of frequencies, ability to have as much bass as you want on a record without worrying that some guy's crappy tonearm will jump, etc.

However, there's far more than meets the eye about it. There are tons of different pressings of each album and the range in sound quality is quite wide from terrible to amazing. In the 80s, when CDs were released, albums were released onto CDs by taking the same mastering done for vinyl and merely digitizing this. Unfortunately, there was no RIAA equalization done for CDs so the albums typically sounded goosed in highs with no real body to the music leading to crystal clean sound and an unsatisfying experience. Once mastering engineers finally understood a whole different set of mastering rules would need to be used for digital, the same albums sounded a million times better.
I called this digititus, it actually exhausts you..
Also, I understand that Mobile Fidelity sound and the like make great pressings. But what about the new $20+ ablums you see at used record stores, guitar center? This album is an example of sonic wonder with every song on the album a gem.I had the original pressing. That is a pinnacle of how good vinyl can sound and it wasn't a premium pressing from msfl and the like.

.

My camp, Vinyl sounds best, but in order for me to go back, I need disposable income. I would need an experienced maid to clean, maintain,play an album when I ask, and manage the records. I would have $30,000+ OH hell $130,000+ analog system, turntable, cd/hi end DAC. I'd have a designated listening room. Long of short, I can't do that, I can't afford to do an analog like that, so, CD's. I'd prefer the Album any day aurally, but the mountain to climb for each album is a lil bit much and that maid better not scratch anything.
 

amigo30

Supporting Member
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7,301
There are some very wrong statements in this thread. Very wrong.

I've always found it curious why people are willing to decide and loudly proclaim that they're audio experts when they've had such limited experience, yet they don't try to pretend they're rocket propulsion experts, or global finance experts or other things that they've had limited experience with.

Buying a stock doesn't make somebody a hedge-fund manager, yet it seems buying a pair of Bose 40 years ago does make somebody an audio equipment expert.

It's a strange phenomenon.
 

Funky54

Member
Messages
4,673
There are some very wrong statements in this thread. Very wrong.

I've always found it curious why people are willing to decide and loudly proclaim that they're audio experts when they've had such limited experience, yet they don't try to pretend they're rocket propulsion experts, or global finance experts or other things that they've had limited experience with.

Buying a stock doesn't make somebody a hedge-fund manager, yet it seems buying a pair of Bose 40 years ago does make somebody an audio equipment expert.

It's a strange phenomenon.
So... I take it you listen to your phone?
 

datguytim

Member
Messages
3,630
Vinyl rules!!!!! Always has, always will IMO!!! I'm 52 years old & my 2 kids (5 /12 & 9 yo) listen to more vinyl than anyone their age I'm sure. Through a decent system (NAD amp w/Infinity Speakers) we still (I foolishly got rid of 100s of LPs about 20 years ago) have a solid variety of styles in the form of about 300 LPs or so.

Through my system, even my wife (who is the greatest) can hear a noticeable difference. WAY warmer, more full bodied, richer, that the ridiculous 00000000s and 111111111s that get crammed down our ear canals every day.

Having said that, most of the music I listen to throughout my days is of the non-vinyl variety. Some of it can sound great, but I prefer records any day of the week.
 

yfeefy

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1,299
One thing for sure, old classic prog releases that then get reissued on cd... I don't know how much they get remixed/remastered or what... The cd can sound disconnected. example -> Genesis - selling England by the Pound - the battle of Epping Forest.

On the original Charisma vinyl (which I have), the mix is really good - the blend is fantastic. On the CD reissue (also I have this), it's almost too clear, or the levels are off. The guitar eight notes hitting the tonic during the verses are too loud, and they don't blend in as well, diminishing the experience.

I think either media (and of course HD digital) can sound excellent, when due care is given. I have like 500 vinyl records mostly incredible stuff, so I am in for the long haul.
 

Funky54

Member
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4,673
I'm in the high-end audio business. I listen to the best sh!t on earth on a daily basis.
I worked for a Sonos Fabre, Wilson Audio Dealer along with 15-20 other high end brands. I spent my weekends listening with small select groups for hours doing nothing but A & B testing. Vinyl is my preference based on audio quality... most of the time. Of course source dictates what will be best. I hardly use my Lossless or HDtracks library.

With all that said, there are still wonderful vinyl systems to be had for the same money as digital quality solutions.

I now am a partner in a Low Voltage Integrator company (been a year this October since I left my previous company) and I still sell and engineer audio solutions. I no longer get to deal in the ultra high end two channel arena. I don’t have a professional sound room... But the solutions I offer for audio now are far more practical and realistic. Low end like Roksan, VPI, Rogue are my go to Solutions now. Truthfully, other than a handful of examples in the $35,000 to $80,000 range I don’t think I’m offering less.

I’ve heard expensive sound cheap and cheap sound expensive. I’ve heard good quality from most formats. Vinyl is still the best in my opinion. I have a $1500 DAC that doesn’t get used because it can’t compete with any of my tables including a $25 garage sale find with a $250 cart.
 
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HeavyCream

Member
Messages
3,146
I have a massive vinyl collection. When I was younger, CDs were expensive and vinyl was cheap. I’m at the point now where I only buy something I really really love. I used to buy people’s entire collection. You can learn a lot about someone by looking at their music collection.

My vinyl stash will be in my will.
 
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pickdropper

I am Soldering Iron Man
Vendor
Messages
7,197
I worked for a Sonos Fabre, Wilson Audio Dealer along with 15-20 other high end brands. I spent my weekends listening with small select groups for hours doing nothing but A & B testing. Vinyl is my preference based on audio quality... most of the time. Of course source dictates what will be best. I hardly use my Lossless or HDtracks library.

With all that said, there are still wonderful vinyl systems to be had for the same money as digital quality solutions.

I now am a partner in a Low Voltage Integrator company (been a year this October since I left my previous company) and I still sell and engineer audio solutions. I no longer get to deal in the ultra high end two channel arena. I don’t have a professional sound room... But the solutions I offer for audio now are far more practical and realistic. Low end like Roksan, VPI, Rogue are my go to Solutions now. Truthfully, other than a handful of examples in the $35,000 to $80,000 range I don’t think I’m offering less.

I’ve heard expensive sound cheap and cheap sound expensive. I’ve heard good quality from most formats. Vinyl is still the best in my opinion. I have a $1500 DAC that doesn’t get used because it can’t compete with any of my tables including a $25 garage sale find with a $250 cart.
I think vinyl has a much higher point of diminishing returns vs. digital, but that doesn't mean that lower cost setups can't be wonderful to listen to.

Just curious, which $1500 DAC do you have?
 

Beano Addict

Member
Messages
860
One thing for sure, old classic prog releases that then get reissued on cd... I don't know how much they get remixed/remastered or what... The cd can sound disconnected. example -> Genesis - selling England by the Pound - the battle of Epping Forest.

On the original Charisma vinyl (which I have), the mix is really good - the blend is fantastic. On the CD reissue (also I have this), it's almost too clear, or the levels are off. The guitar eight notes hitting the tonic during the verses are too loud, and they don't blend in as well, diminishing the experience.

I think either media (and of course HD digital) can sound excellent, when due care is given. I have like 500 vinyl records mostly incredible stuff, so I am in for the long haul.
All depends on the mastering and the source of it. Mastering is the #1 most overlooked or completely ignored component and it can make/break the listening experience.
 

DewieCox

Supporting Member
Messages
4,446
While I certainly dig vinyl (and have quite a bit of it), I’m curious if the sales figures will continue to grow once it isn’t a hipster trend. It’s been popular with audiophiles for years, but that didn’t stop people from giving/throwing away their collections in be 90’s.
How long will it have to last to not be a hipster trend? I started my collection and about 2008. The trend had set in and was firmly on the upswing then and that seems to have continued to present day.
 

Funky54

Member
Messages
4,673
I think vinyl has a much higher point of diminishing returns vs. digital, but that doesn't mean that lower cost setups can't be wonderful to listen to.

Just curious, which $1500 DAC do you have?
Ayre Acoustics' QX-5 twenty. I paid $1500 used for it. It works with Roon.

I use for either digital or Vinyl the same speakers and amps.

Main Vinyl - AT ART-9 cart >Roksan Radius (upgraded to 7) > Rogue Audio Perseus Atlas preamp (NOS Mullard)> Left Jolida RD1000 (Winged C EL34’s matched Octet) horizontally bi-amped > Right Jolida RD1000 (Winged C EL34’s matched Octet) Horizontally bi-amped to Alon IV Speakers (NOLA) with upgraded drivers.

Secondary Vinyl - Shure M97XE with Jicco SAS >Pioneer PL 530 > Yaqin MS12-b (clear top RCA) pre > 7 Watt SE amp with EL34’s PSVane Tubes> Kef Q300 Speakers

Theater - Sony X-800 Bdp > 5.1.4 Marantz pre> 2X outlaw audio 755 amps >Triad Silver Speakers. Sony XBR65X950D

Whole House Audio - 9 Zone (Source is Echo, Sonos Connect & Ayer Acoustic’s QX-5 twenty) Crestron System > Triad & Episode IC Speakers.
 
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Funky54

Member
Messages
4,673
Pic’s of more A/B comparing. Speaker wire, Speakers, interconnects, amps, preamps, Tubes, tables, carts....



Battled my own tables using identical ATMC33E carts.



Early rendition.



Later (but still older rendition



A buddies house, note all the speaker, amp and sub comparisons and changes









 




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