The value of tempo matching

Discussion in 'Effects, Pedals, Strings & Things' started by sus4, Jan 28, 2006.


  1. sus4

    sus4 Member

    Messages:
    128
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2005
    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    How important is synching your delay with the tempo of the song you're playing? Tap tempo seems like the big thing in delay, but the cool, classic analog pedals don't have it. Has technology gone too far?

    Is the same true for modulation effects and tremolo? Hmmm.

    Any thoughts? Is anyone anti-tap tempo?

    Daniel:moon
     
  2. ABKB

    ABKB Member

    Messages:
    3,167
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2005
    Location:
    Chicago
    Am not anti-tap tempo, it can be very cool. But (at least for me), in a live situation I dont worry about it too much unless it is a slow ballad type song and I want to use delay on it. Studio, then yes, it's very cool to do. But it really depends on the music being played. If your in a U2 type band, then it's a nessesity, but otherwise can probably do just fine without it.
     
  3. jumpchamp

    jumpchamp Member

    Messages:
    354
    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2005
    Location:
    Cleveland, OH
    it certainly depends on what you're trying to accomplish. even though i use delay sparingly, i always tap it in. but my main application is to have a little space between delays for a spacey sound on accent parts in verses. i only use delay on one solo, but i also don't play blistering fast solos. mine tend to be more vocal-like in quality and you can hum along with them for the most part.

    i don't have tap on my vibe pedal, but there are times i wish i did...
     
  4. John Phillips

    John Phillips Member

    Messages:
    13,080
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Location:
    Scotland
    Interesting to note that The Edge does not (or perhaps does, now... I don't know - but definitely didn't in the past) use tap tempo :).

    I'm not 'anti' it either, I just don't see the necessity, for what I do. I use delay and tremolo all the time (almost literally, though not as a really major part of the sound usually) and just set them by ear. The only song I play which requires a very strong dotted-rhythm delay part, is achieved by setting the delay time on my DM-2 up full... I tweaked the Clock trimmer to make it so ;).
     
  5. Meriphew

    Meriphew Member

    Messages:
    4,905
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2004
    Location:
    Seattle USA
    I think the Edge is probably midi sync'd with alot of his effects, and for those that aren't, I'm sure they have used the old millisecsonds to BPM conversion charts to match the tempo of the songs. Having tap/midi syncable effects is almost a necessity for me (except for my old Roland SDE-1000's which I do the milliseconds/BPM conversion).
     
  6. D.G.

    D.G. Member

    Messages:
    646
    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2004
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    I don't need to have the delay in time with the tune, I play "around" the delay as part of my style. In the studio I'll tune the tempo to the song, though I won't ever actually "match" the song tempo. I like the organic nature of a delay that's in a different tempo. I usually prefer the relationship of a triplet, though not in any strict fashion. On stage I'll ocassionally tap in the tempo I want the delay to be in, but just as often, I'll just use what's already set. YMMV.
     
  7. themusicboxstudios

    themusicboxstudios Member

    Messages:
    2,184
    Joined:
    May 2, 2005
    Location:
    Irvine, CA
    i actually think a delay is supposed to be slightly off for most uses, because if not, the repeats just kind of get lost. i have memory lane, and rarely use the tap.

    off tempo tremolo on the other hand can be extremely irratating, which is why i can't wait to get my cusack tapawhirl.
     
  8. sus4

    sus4 Member

    Messages:
    128
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2005
    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    exactly. that's where i stand, i guess...especially with a heavy-hitting drummer.

    any "tappers" disagree?
     
  9. mbratch

    mbratch Member

    Messages:
    2,389
    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2003
    Location:
    Webster, NY
    In my opinion, it depends upon the song. Some songs just want a pronounced, to-tempo, modulation (delay or tremolo in particular) effect. To the point where if it's off tempo, it will sound bad. In some songs, it's more subtle and should probably be off tempo, or perhaps not even matter.

    If I had my way, I wish all tremolo and delay pedals had tap tempo for those times I wish I had it. If you don't need it, then no harm done.
     
  10. amper

    amper Member

    Messages:
    469
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2005
    Location:
    US
    I hate tap tempo delays. Set tempo delay is the way to go for me. I prefer units like the new Boss DD-20 that can acutally set a tempo and a note value, since I tend to use a lot of dotted-eighth and eighth-triplet delays (when I'm using delay, that is). It really ticks me off that all the analog delays I've seen only go to about 300ms, when the most common delay setting I use works out to 1/3 second (333.33...ms).

    This is why I went rack-mount for awhile. Just to get that true tempo setting. Never really liked rack units, though. That sound cut-off just irked me to no end.

    Ah well, now that the DD-20 exists, I don't have to worry about it anymore.
     
  11. jman

    jman Member

    Messages:
    541
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2006
    Location:
    New England
    Edge may not be tapping it in on the fly but a lot of those well known U2 tunes have 'in time' delays-it's sort of his signature...players who often use echo such as Eric Johnson,Pat Metheny,Bill Frissell,Mike Stern and Hank Marvin to name a few just have it going w/o being in tempo and that seems to work for them but it's different styles/tastes... if i have the tap switch plugged into my DD5 i seem to get a bit caught up in the tempo thing so it's a nice change to just set the delay and not think about it sometimes.
     
  12. DigitalTube

    DigitalTube Member

    Messages:
    933
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2004
    Location:
    Hotels everywhere
    For an interesting tap tempo delay check out the FX-TRACKER by:
    http://www.backline-eng.com/

    I haven't tried it yet..but would like to find one to try.
    E.B.
     
  13. Lammy

    Lammy Member

    Messages:
    481
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    Location:
    Brooklyn
    Edge doesnt use a tap tempo, but because larry mullen plays with a click.
     
  14. ccoker

    ccoker Supporting Member

    Messages:
    1,153
    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    I used to program my delays to be in tempo
    I had one of those Lake Butler Midigator pedals that allowed for like 5 presets per song and would program everything in to exhausting detail


    now.. I just use a dd20 with a few presets and don't worry too much about it...
     
  15. Kaiser

    Kaiser Member

    Messages:
    228
    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
    none of my formers delay pedals had tap tempo, my DE7 doesn't right now, I have a DML on my wish list along with an echo park, though I'm not looking at the EP for that feature, it's going to be valuable, as someone said before, it's not harmful if you have it, it is if you need it and don't have it, that's my GAS speaking, hehe
     
  16. Tim Bowen

    Tim Bowen Member

    Messages:
    2,428
    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2004
    Location:
    Atlanta, Georgia
    Very little tap tempo experience here, so maybe the vets could humor me with some education. What delay applications are not easily facilitated by being 'tapped' in? Can you get dotted eighth note tricks and rockabilly slap? Or is it mostly about medium tempo stuff?
     
  17. Moe45673

    Moe45673 Member

    Messages:
    5,260
    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    I don't know how most pedals work (e.g., a DD-3 or echopark).

    The DD-20 lets you tap in tempo times of a whole note, half note, half note triplet, quarter note, dotted eighth note, quarter note triplet, eighth note, and eighth note triplet.

    I think that's all of them. The line 6 podxt live, btw, lets you do sixteenth notes and the dotted/triplet mode variants.

    Rockabilly slap is pretty universal. It's so fast with low feedback, that it makes more sense to set it in ms than bpm
     
  18. ButchR

    ButchR Komet Player Gold Supporting Member

    Messages:
    1,858
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2003
    Location:
    Alexandria, LA
    I use the DD-20 and we play with a click. I have the times down on paper and change with each song in the BPM mode. It's a little extra pain but the delays are in sync with the click track.
     
  19. Tim Bowen

    Tim Bowen Member

    Messages:
    2,428
    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2004
    Location:
    Atlanta, Georgia
    Moe, thanks for your thoughts. I take it then that with a tap tempo delay unit that doesn't offer rhythmic subsets, dotted eighth figures are not easily facilitated, as tapped in. Not sure yet if I'm a tap tempo guy.
     
  20. sosomething

    sosomething Member

    Messages:
    2,650
    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2004
    Location:
    In da NAP liss!
    Bingo - we have a winner.
     

Share This Page