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Theory Challenge

stevel

Member
Messages
15,207
Here are the rules if you'd like to play:

1. You have one minute (no cheating :)
2. Post the NUMBER of CORRECT (double-check your answers) answers you got, not the answers themselves.
3. Don't quote this post, just put a number for the answers (so others won't see the original challenge without looking at this original post).
4. If you do happen to see the answers, or read the challenge too soon, choose a different note (randomly) and try the challenge.

Here's the challenge (scroll down):




























In one minute, name as many chord forms (triads, 7th chords, 9th chords, 6, 6/9, sus4, etc.) that contain the note F, but not as the root, as you can.

Begin...
 

frdagaa

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
2,503
2... no, 3
; )

I like the thread, actually, but it's too much like school for me.
 

JonR

Member
Messages
15,687
There's dozens (maybe around 100), but I'd be cheating if I said I could write them all out in a minute... But let's see how far I get...

.....

I managed to write out 20 chords in a minute, but I only got as far as Ab root (starting with Gb).

There must be at least 100 possibilities, if you include all possible extensions. Wouldn't it be more interesting to list them all, rather than ask for quantities worked out in 60 seconds? Or just ask how many people can think of, given as much time as they need?
 

Super Locrian

Member
Messages
1,507
The question is not precise enough. For instance, does Dm, Dm7, Dm9 etc. count as separate chords? They all have an F in them, but it has the same function in the chord, and the chord would in many (but not all) cases have the same function in a progression. But if you compare Dm7b5 and plain Dm7, the F would have the same function in each chord, but the chords would probably different functions in a progression. And what about chords containing E# or Gbb, which are identical to F on a guitar or keyboard? :p
 

Flyin' Brian

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
30,303
The question is not precise enough. For instance, does Dm, Dm7, Dm9 etc. count as separate chords? They all have an F in them, but it has the same function in the chord, and the chord would in many (but not all) cases have the same function in a progression. But if you compare Dm7b5 and plain Dm7, the F would have the same function in each chord, but the chords would probably different functions in a progression. And what about chords containing E# or Gbb, which are identical to F on a guitar or keyboard? :p
:agree
 

kimock

Member
Messages
12,520
OK, OK, I'll go back and recheck my count, but I'm telling you right now if I misplaced a decimal point or something like that I think it's only fair that I get to round up to 4.
 

stevel

Member
Messages
15,207
The question is not precise enough. For instance, does Dm, Dm7, Dm9 etc. count as separate chords? They all have an F in them, but it has the same function in the chord, and the chord would in many (but not all) cases have the same function in a progression.
Ok, here's an example of a player overthinking the situation. I didn't aks about chords with similar functions, but chords with an F in them, where F is not the root. That's pretty clear.
And what about chords containing E# or Gbb, which are identical to F on a guitar or keyboard? :p
Then you're getting nit-picky.:bonkYes, C#M has an E# in it. But I asked for F, not enharmonics of F.

If you want to go that route, there is but one letter name in the musical alphabet, and an A Major chord is Cbbb-C#-Cxx (thus a Cbbb Major chord). Theoretically speaking of course.

Steve
 

stevel

Member
Messages
15,207
There's dozens (maybe around 100), but I'd be cheating if I said I could write them all out in a minute... But let's see how far I get...

.....

I managed to write out 20 chords in a minute, but I only got as far as Ab root (starting with Gb).

There must be at least 100 possibilities, if you include all possible extensions. Wouldn't it be more interesting to list them all, rather than ask for quantities worked out in 60 seconds? Or just ask how many people can think of, given as much time as they need?
Well the point of the challenge was to see if, say, you're given a C note in a melody, to decide quickly which chords it could be harmonized with. 20 would give you a pretty good shot. 2 or 3, not so much (though I thank frdagaa for responding).

I could also get around 20 in a minute (though I had the problem of trying not to think of the note before I started the clock).

Steve.
 

kimock

Member
Messages
12,520
Ok, here's an example of a player overthinking the situation. I didn't aks about chords with similar functions, but chords with an F in them, where F is not the root. That's pretty clear.
Yeah, like the first inversion IV chord in the key of C.
 

JonR

Member
Messages
15,687
Well the point of the challenge was to see if, say, you're given a C note in a melody, to decide quickly which chords it could be harmonized with. 20 would give you a pretty good shot. 2 or 3, not so much (though I thank frdagaa for responding).

I could also get around 20 in a minute (though I had the problem of trying not to think of the note before I started the clock).
Right. I also thought of a whole lot before I actually started writing (or typing).
I didn't manage to start my stopwatch as soon as I saw your challenge :rolleyes: - nor did I measure how long I was thinking about it before I started writing them down.
All of this makes it damn near impossible to avoid "cheating". Never mind the possibility we might LIE :eek:.

(Not that I'd ever accuse Mr Kimock of not actually being able to name 39,916,800 chords in a minute. I'll bet he really knows many more than that... :) )

Surely the valid issue is whether we know enough chords to do this? Not how many we can list in 60 seconds?

Or am I just taking the whole thing too seriously?? :crazyguy
 

Clifford-D

Senior Member
Messages
17,045
Every chord with F as a root
Every chord with F as a b9
Every chord with F as a 2(sus)
Every chord with F as a 9
Every chord with F as a #9
Every chord with F as a b3
Every chord with F as a b10 (the Kimockian interval)
Every chord with F as a 3
Every chord with F as a 4(sus)
Every chord with F as a 11
Every chord with F as a #4
Every chord with F as a #11
Every chord with F as a b5
Every chord with F as a 5
Every chord with F as a #5
Every chord with F as a b13
Every chord with F as a 6
Every chord with F as a 13
Every chord with F as a bb7
Every chord with F as a b7
Every chord with F as a 7

Much of this could be written as slash chords.

This took me 5 minutes to write, of course I am also watching Con Air, where the @%#* is the remote.
 

Clifford-D

Senior Member
Messages
17,045
http://ezinearticles.com/?id=59841

Since chords (the main component of harmony) are one of the three most vital elements of music – the others being melody and rhythm – it would be useful to know how many chords there are. And it doesn’t matter whether you play piano or guitar or some other instrument – chords are chords.
It’s certainly not necessary to learn all the chords in the whole wide world, but it is necessary to learn some of them – at least enough to allow you to harmonize the songs you would like to play.
But meanwhile, there are 3 chords -- just 3 -- that you absolutely, positively have to know. If you don't know these three, there's hardly a song in the whole world that you could play. But by knowing just 3 chords, you can play hundreds, if not thousands of songs! And those chords are simply the primary chords in any given key:
·The I chord (the chord built on the 1st degree of the scale)
·The IV chord (the chord built on the 4th degree of the scale)
·The V chord (the chord built on the 5th degree of the scale)
For example, if you were playing in the Key of C, the I chord would be C (c, e, g), the IV chord would be F (f, a, c), and the V chord would be G (g, b, d).
But as you probably know, there are thousands of other chords, so it would be helpful to at least know of their existence and maybe someday learn them.
So here goes:
Since there are 12 major keys one can play in (not counting enharmonic keys – keys that sound the same but are written differently), there are:
*12 major triads (a triad is a 3 note chord)
*12 minor triads
*12 diminished triads
*12 augmented triads
*12 diminished 7th chords (4 note chords)
*12 major 6th chords
*12 minor 6th chords
*12 dominant 7th chords
*12 major 7th chords
*12 minor 7th chords
*12 half-diminished chords
*12 9th chords
*12 flat 9th chords
*12 9th/major 7th chords
*12 9th/minor 7th chords
*12 11th chords
*12 13th chords
*12 suspensions
*12 flat 5th chords
*12 flat 5th maj 7th chords
If that’s not enough chords for you, remember that each chord can be inverted – turned upside down. So multiply all the triad chords by 3, and all the 4 note chords by 4, and all the 5 note chords by 5….
Then there are:
· poly-chords – chords that combine two or more other chords, and
· voicings – the way chords are positioned on the piano keyboard
And that’s just in one octave. A standard piano has 7 octaves, so multiply all that by 7 and you get the answer to how many chords there really are:
More than you can count.
 




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