There's limitless room left for new expression on the electric guitar...

Discussion in 'The Sound Hound Lounge' started by Terry McInturff, Jul 8, 2019.

  1. Spider Mark

    Spider Mark Member

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    I think you were the one who said I had no idea about great music, that AI research into music composition is pointless hype and stupid and moaning about "Futurists" when I was just observing current trends and research etc.

    Have you done any research, even casual reading, on the topic? On the long relationship between mathematics and music (and how AI uses this today and getting better)?

    That would be an informed opinion.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
  2. DC1

    DC1 Member

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    No, I said:

    “If you think AI can equal or exceed that level of inspiration, you clearly don’t understand great music.”

    And I told you why I believe that, with examples. I think the idea that AI will someday “exceed Beethoven” is fallacious and based upon nothing but futurist speculation and meandering AI compositions that support my position, not yours. Your response is that it will get better. Maybe, but I don’t think it will ever go where you think it will. I don’t think that’s possible, given the huge chasm between AI and actual cognition.

    I disagreed with your perspective. I did not insult you. You cannot make your point from a knowledge of great music or from actual examples of “exceeding Beethoven”; only from speculation that I see no real basis for.

    Again, disagreement not insult.

    dc
     
  3. Spider Mark

    Spider Mark Member

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    Splitting hairs while maintaining the same position. What research have you done into AI that makes you say that someone (me!) who thinks that AI can equal or exceed the level of the human then I clearly don't understand great music? That's straight at me.

    Maybe you don't understand AI and the research done directly with musical composition, recursion etc through the long relationship of mathematics and music. Have you read a book on the topic?
     
  4. desertrat07

    desertrat07 Supporting Member

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    Great ****ing reference -- I love that story by Borges, even if I only understand half of the rest of what you said.
     
  5. DC1

    DC1 Member

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    Have a nice evening.

    Terry, sorry for hijacking your thread.

    dc
     
  6. Spider Mark

    Spider Mark Member

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    Coolies.
     
  7. DC1

    DC1 Member

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    To the original point,

    Terry, I used to see you at NAMM every year, so I know you’ve been there many times.

    It’s a perfect example of what you’re talking about. Guitarists using insane chops as a business card; a way of setting themselves apart from the punters. A few of us know that many of them cannot afford business cards because no one cares about their chops except other guitar players. Worse, there’s little musicality in any of it. I always wonder what to play when trying out something new at NAMM. Do I trot out my hottest riffs and show people that I’m not a punter? I can’t do that with a straight face. Once I was trying a new tube amp, and decided to play Vince Guaraldi’s “Cast Your Fate to the Wind”. When I was done, the builder was clearly moved and told me what a “great player” I was. I thanked him, but you and I know that song is just major thirds over a very simple chord structure.

    It wasn’t my playing he liked. I know that. It was the hearing of a truly great composition in the great brown pile of noodling that is NAMM.

    Great music. That’s all there is.

    dc
     
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  8. yfeefy

    yfeefy Member

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    The hijack, if it is one, is quite a good one.
     
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  9. mobius

    mobius Member

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    The electric guitar is a band instrument. The guitar based rock band format and especially the distorted electric guitar does not translate well as a solo instrument I think.

    When playing solo, to a group of people or in a shop for example, I have no trouble playing solo fingerstyle acoustic or classical guitar and capturing the audience.

    On electric, I have not yet found the music that translates well in that setting, but I'm fairly certain that distorted guitar blues/rock soloing is not it.

    Jazz chord melody pieces would cut it, as an example. I'm not sure what would be the equivalent in rock music.

    But, I think as we haven't even found it yet, that there's a long ground yet to cover for the humble electric guitar.
     
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  10. TopJimmy5150

    TopJimmy5150 Member

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    The worship of "classic" rock is hurting us musically. We are not moving forward. We are just trying to constantly recreate what we love and having our dead rock forefathers in hologram form and bands from the 60's and 70's with no original members is not going to get us there. It's time to move on...there is new music out there, it just needs to be heard without the filter of what we're used to.
     
  11. toddincharlotte

    toddincharlotte Supporting Member

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    While musical tastes are subjective, AI will and have already surpassed humanity with regularity in a number of areas. There is a threat to a handful of industries. Look at the auto industry for example. Automation will also eventually take over the freight industry, that'a a near certainty given the current state of autonomous vehicles. Hell, I work with AI every day, and I see the evidence of it beating me handily modeling a numeric series better than I ever could even with the help of Excel or SAS.

    Beethoven or Bach? Sure, humanity will continue to corner the market in this area [FWIW, academic music is all "sponsored" anyway] but with AI sucking up millions [likely billions] of jobs in the coming decades, what does humanity do to fill the void?
     
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  12. mobius

    mobius Member

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    Hell, I reckon AI-generated music will be an improvement over much of the drivel I hear daily on the radio :D
     
  13. buzzp

    buzzp Member

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    I agree. Some of the newest stuff that I've heard on guitar has been my absolute favorite, and it's no coincidence that the guitar stuff I love always serves a purpose and fits the song.

    Using my favorite band for examples.

    It's cool to be guitar heavy:


    But it's also super cool to lay back and be the "icing":
     
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  14. telest

    telest Member

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    Another Jimi or Eddie will come along with a fresh take one of these days. Spoiler alert! Not gonna be me. Drat! :bonk
     
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  15. pickaguitar

    pickaguitar 2011 TGP Silver Medalist Silver Supporting Member

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    An excellent post! I agree. Thank you
     
  16. Duffy Pratt

    Duffy Pratt Member

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    Let’s not forget bowling:

     
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  17. I Am Misery

    I Am Misery Member

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    o_O
     
  18. Codyyy

    Codyyy Member

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    I’ve always wondered what to play as well when trying out gear. I have somewhat of a scientific approach to it. I’ll check the ergonomics first. The neck carve. The position of the neck sitting down. I’ll strum a few familiar chords, then notes or scales. I’ll play light, dig in, try different volumes or moving knobs around etc. I really don’t aim to play songs for some reason because I’m focused on how the gear feels or sounds. It’s noodling for sure. What difference would it make if I played actual songs? Does the seller give me a discount?
     
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  19. DC1

    DC1 Member

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    Well I never got a discount!

    dc
     
  20. russ6100

    russ6100 Member

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    AI is improving and will likely improve to the extent that epic court battles will be fought, resulting in some AIs acquiring what amounts to human "rights".

    AIs and music / songwriting?

    Q: Why does music move us in the first place?
    A: Humanity is a major contributing factor for many, I'll wager.

    So maybe AI can be "More human than human"?

    What do you want from music?
     

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