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There's no way this refinished '64 Strat sold for that price...

Spider-Man

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
5,787
I’d hurry. :eek:


Definitely out of reach...

I was talking with a dealer that has a clean early '58 with all '57 specs two weeks ago. Decided to pass only because I can't get out there to play it and I didn't want to have it shipped to try it. That one was "reasonably" priced considering the current market. At any rate, I'm not doing anything until the spring. Might try to make it to a couple of the big shows in 2022.
 

sikoniko

Member
Messages
608

Highnumbers

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,584
that guitar isn't going to sell at that price. the dealer is being greedy and I will never buy from them for doing this and I would recommend everyone else stay far away. an original one sold on reverb recently for < / ~ $35k. thats still high.
"I don't like their price so I'm going to boycott this dealer and everybody else should too."

The free market doesn't care about your boycott. If it's priced too high, it'll sit. If it isn't, it'll sell. Simple, right?

Retrofret know a thing or two about selling guitars to a segment of the market that I'm guessing you're not in.
 

sikoniko

Member
Messages
608
"I don't like their price so I'm going to boycott this dealer and everybody else should too."

The free market doesn't care about your boycott. If it's priced too high, it'll sit. If it isn't, it'll sell. Simple, right?

Retrofret know a thing or two about selling guitars to a segment of the market that I'm guessing you're not in.
something is only worth what someone is willing to pay. they are trying to take advantage of an uninformed buyer. they know its over-priced as well, as their page says that the price is subject to change. capitalism works both ways, and in a fair market, it's the customer that sets the price.

this isn't a matter of "I don't like their price". this is artificial inflation to try and hook a sucker. I don't care how clean that guitar is, it's not worth that.

you can chose to buy from them, but this is unethical as far as I'm concerned. There are plenty of other dealers out there to chose from.

by the way... the other thing about capitalism is that the customer chooses who wins and who loses. let the greedy shops fall away. big deals happen with shops where there is a customer/shop relationship anyways.
 

WordMan

Wax Rhapsodic
Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
9,886
they are trying to take advantage of an uninformed buyer.

but this is unethical as far as I'm concerned.

let the greedy shops fall away. big deals happen with shops where there is a customer/shop relationship anyways.
:facepalm

You are so far out of your depth it’s comical. Please research them - they are one of most respected relationship-based shops in the world. Please tell Julian Lage, Ry Cooder, Rosanne Cash, the late Walter Becker and so many others that RetroFret are bad guys and see how far it gets you.
 
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Fitzer

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
2,851
something is only worth what someone is willing to pay. they are trying to take advantage of an uninformed buyer. they know its over-priced as well, as their page says that the price is subject to change. capitalism works both ways, and in a fair market, it's the customer that sets the price.

this isn't a matter of "I don't like their price". this is artificial inflation to try and hook a sucker. I don't care how clean that guitar is, it's not worth that.

you can chose to buy from them, but this is unethical as far as I'm concerned. There are plenty of other dealers out there to chose from.

by the way... the other thing about capitalism is that the customer chooses who wins and who loses. let the greedy shops fall away. big deals happen with shops where there is a customer/shop relationship anyways.
Stop dude. The slanderous nonsense is not productive, and you truly don’t understand who you’re talking to in here or you would not be posting this kind of stuff. Back down and chill.
 

Riffmaster227

Senior Member
Messages
397
"I don't like their price so I'm going to boycott this dealer and everybody else should too."

The free market doesn't care about your boycott. If it's priced too high, it'll sit. If it isn't, it'll sell. Simple, right?

Retrofret know a thing or two about selling guitars to a segment of the market that I'm guessing you're not in.
while the free market doesn’t care, if enough people refuse to pay outlandish prices then the dealers will have no choice but to lower their price in order to move their product. More and more people are becoming outraged at ridiculous prices and it’s about time someone stand up to the tyranny
 

WordMan

Wax Rhapsodic
Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
9,886
if enough people refuse to pay outlandish prices then the dealers will have no choice but to lower their price in order to move their product.
100% true

it’s about time someone stand up to the tyranny
:dunno

They’re old guitars that no one has to buy, available during a golden age of modern construction, so great guitars are available across price points.

Who’s getting tyrant-ified* here?

*Please shush about this word; I’m on a roll :dude

Shoot, it’s Tyrannized :facepalm My brain’s already on holiday, folks.
 
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Jazzandmore

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
12,572
while the free market doesn’t care, if enough people refuse to pay outlandish prices then the dealers will have no choice but to lower their price in order to move their product. More and more people are becoming outraged at ridiculous prices and it’s about time someone stand up to the tyranny
Uh your post mentions free market, so how is there tyranny?

Tyranny: cruel, unreasonable, or arbitrary use of power or control.

Since the money is in the consumer's pocket until they spend it, then the consumer has the power/control. And what "more and more people" are you referring too? Do you mean highly knowledgeable vintage guitar enthusiasts that know what things are worth and will buy guitars in this price range? Or is "more and more people" a bunch of folks who are not even in the market for vintage guitars and have nothing to do with this thread?
 

Riffmaster227

Senior Member
Messages
397
Uh your post mentions free market, so how is there tyranny?

Tyranny: cruel, unreasonable, or arbitrary use of power or control.

Since the money is in the consumer's pocket until they spend it, then the consumer has the power/control. And what "more and more people" are you referring too? Do you mean highly knowledgeable vintage guitar enthusiasts that know what things are worth and will buy guitars in this price range? Or is "more and more people" a bunch of folks who are not even in the market for vintage guitars and have nothing to do with this thread?
Tyranny as in the dealers currently hold the power/ control and are unreasonably and arbitrary using their position to take advantage of the consumer, We the people have to take the power back by refusing to play the game by their rules. More and more people by meaning anyonewho wants to purchase vintage, more and more people are becoming fed up the high cost in these difficult, conflicted, and uncertain times
 

Spider-Man

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
5,787
Yes, the price for that '55 is high. But did you guys look at the guitar, or just the price?

Go find another all-original '55 that clean with a one-piece Ash body. Let me know what they are asking for it.
 

Highnumbers

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,584
by the way... the other thing about capitalism is that the customer chooses who wins and who loses. let the greedy shops fall away. big deals happen with shops where there is a customer/shop relationship anyways.
....Have you tried to buy real estate in the last 24 months? I don't know a major city in the country right now where offers over asking price are not the norm.

There are "buyer's markets" and "seller's markets" in a free capitalist system. Right now, not many are the first category, including vintage guitars.

By all means, go find and buy as many MINT '55 Stratocasters you can possibly buy for $30K. Nobody is stopping you.
 

WordMan

Wax Rhapsodic
Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
9,886
Tyranny as in the dealers currently hold the power/ control and are unreasonably and arbitrary using their position to take advantage of the consumer, We the people have to take the power back by refusing to play the game by their rules. More and more people by meaning anyonewho wants to purchase vintage, more and more people are becoming fed up the high cost in these difficult, conflicted, and uncertain times
Top shops are finding it difficult to get inventory because so many individuals are seeing the prices that old guitars are going for and trying to get those prices even though they can’t back up the sale the way a shop can. But they are a big factor in driving prices.

In turn, serious buyers are turning more and more to top shops to get a guitar that has provenance, been thoroughly checked out and is backed.

The only tyranny is that of Supply & Demand.
 

Jazzandmore

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
12,572
Tyranny as in the dealers currently hold the power/ control and are unreasonably and arbitrary using their position to take advantage of the consumer, We the people have to take the power back by refusing to play the game by their rules. More and more people by meaning anyonewho wants to purchase vintage, more and more people are becoming fed up the high cost in these difficult, conflicted, and uncertain times
So to be clear, you are in the market for a vintage guitar, a guitar like this one being referred to? And you are well versed in vintage guitars and have bought them before and know the price history? You have money in hand which, by your own words "if enough people refuse to pay outlandish prices then the dealers will have no choice but to lower their price in order to move their product." means you completely and totally control whether the dealer gets your money or not.

And unless vintage guitars become edible, then they are not a necessity, they are a luxury, pure and simple. But somehow in these "difficult and conflicted times" you feel the tyranny of not being able to spend your money on a guitar that someone is selling for $85,000. You really honestly believe you are being mistreated because during a world pandemic you don't want to pay for a vintage guitar, and that you speak for "anyone who wants to purchase..."?

Well I will say this, you need to go have a talk with your friend Bezos if you believe that this point in history is bad because you don't want to pay asking prices for vintage guitars. I honestly didn't realize it was that hard for folks like yourself to make it through the day.
 

Riffmaster227

Senior Member
Messages
397
So to be clear, you are in the market for a vintage guitar, a guitar like this one being referred to? And you are well versed in vintage guitars and have bought them before and know the price history? You have money in hand which, by your own words "if enough people refuse to pay outlandish prices then the dealers will have no choice but to lower their price in order to move their product." means you completely and totally control whether the dealer gets your money or not.

And unless vintage guitars become edible, then they are not a necessity, they are a luxury, pure and simple. But somehow in these "difficult and conflicted times" you feel the tyranny of not being able to spend your money on a guitar that someone is selling for $85,000. You really honestly believe you are being mistreated because during a world pandemic you don't want to pay for a vintage guitar, and that you speak for "anyone who wants to purchase..."?

Well I will say this, you need to go have a talk with your friend Bezos if you believe that this point in history is bad because you don't want to pay asking prices for vintage guitars. I honestly didn't realize it was that hard for folks like yourself to make it through the day.
it’s apparent that we are not going to come to the same conclusion. (Btw actually I’m not in the market for anything even remotely close to the guitar(s) in question)
 

Jazzandmore

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
12,572
it’s apparent that we are not going to come to the same conclusion. (Btw actually I’m not in the market for anything even remotely close to the guitar(s) in question)
I for once agree with you, we are not going to come to the same conclusion. If you are not in the market then I have a hard time understanding how you can boldly speak for all vintage guitar buyers. You used a reference to a world wide pandemic to discuss the tyranny of luxury items. You are correct, if these are examples of the logic you are using and your thought process, then we certainly won't come to similar conclusions.
 

mvsr990

Member
Messages
4,940
something is only worth what someone is willing to pay. they are trying to take advantage of an uninformed buyer. they know its over-priced as well, as their page says that the price is subject to change. capitalism works both ways, and in a fair market, it's the customer that sets the price.
If someone spending five figures on a guitar is "uninformed" they deserve to get rooked.
 

sikoniko

Member
Messages
608
Stop dude. The slanderous nonsense is not productive, and you truly don’t understand who you’re talking to in here or you would not be posting this kind of stuff. Back down and chill.

what is that supposed to mean? you don't know who I am either... and guess what, it doesn't matter. here today, gone tomorrow. I don't cow-tow to over-zealous, greedy dealers who want to act like its a privilege to buy from them. and you shouldn't either. there are plenty of other dealers out there. do they have comparable supply? let's continue that discussion further down. I wouldn't be surprised if this guitar is on consignment.

now get off your defensive high-horse and lets come back to earth and have an honest conversation about value/price and stop being defensive.

I did look at the guitar. I'm sure there is an argument for it being 'museum grade', but what does that mean anyways? pre-pandemic (2019-2020) this guitar would have gone for $35-$40k (top end of the market based on condition).

Wellstrung has some of the finest grade guitars available to the market today, their prices are quite high, but they aren't even this high.

I agree/understand supply and demand... the question here is price/value. There will be a reset in the next year and whoever pays that price will be upside down instantly. so, I hope if someone does pay that price, they are in it for the long haul (10, 20, 30 years? who knows?).

The market these people want is the 'investment banker' that will spend $85k like its pocket change... thats a paraphrase from a dealer I spoke to about a guitar I was looking at a couple weeks ago... and it only takes one.

additionally, it is true, how many '55's are still in this condition?

price is set by what someone is willing to pay. the dealer wants to maximize that price for their profits. ok. thats the way it works. if the guitar sells too quick, likely it was under-priced or priced at market value and someone was ready to buy when it came available. If the guitar is over-priced, it will sit, and the dealer will be forced to come down to reality. the ideal spot is where both parties walk away with a win-win. dealer gets their profit, buyer pays fair market value.

for US buyers, these guitars are already here, so they aren't impacted by the global supply-chain issues that is driving inflation. No, these dealers are trying to take advantage of the cash that has been injected into the market by the number of stimulus's that were provided and the cash some people have as a result and uptick in personal wealth from a good market. they are being greedy. the way to offset that is the consumer rejects the price. you don't apologize for (or victimize) the poor dealer.

the other comment I made, is dealer supply has been impacted / thinned by a. the number of people that were stuck at home and decided to learn guitar (but statistically, are those people really in the vintage market?). b. the shut-down in guitar shows.

Guitar shows are starting back up. I would guess that the market could get flooded by people selling off their guitars that were impulse buys, which will drive up supply and bring down the price.

this post is long enough. like I said, stop being defensive and come back to the table with an honest conversation.
 




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