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Those of you that have compared Heritage G12Ms and Scumback M75s...

Chrissy

Member
Messages
974
When they first came out I bought a quad of Celestion Heritage Greenbacks to go in my Germino slant 4x12. On loading them up I was distinctly disappointed as they seemed to be all crunch and no depth and I wrote them off with the intention of selling them. On a whim when I was speaker swapping with Seegs a while back we loaded the slant with 2 Scumback H55 and 2 Heritage Ms and damned if it didn't sound great! So two weeks ago I went the whole hog and auditioned all 4 again and I can't believe the difference. Whether I had a cold solder joint or screwed up the wiring or whatever - who knows? Suffice to say the cab is a serious sounding piece of equipment now. It gives a distinctly different tone and percieved volume (less) to my Scumback loaded Orange 4x12 (H55/H75 mix) but a very viable one. The mids give an earlier crunch that is nice and chewy (early break-up goes well with my Komet 60) and I still find the top end detailed enough. Even the bass holds together with a neck P90.

The long and the short of it is: Since I love the tone of my Scumbacks and have found there to be great tones in all the models I've tried (H55, H75, H55HP, H75HP, 10" H75) I am curious as to whether a quad of Jim's M75s will give me even more of this style of tone. I had written myself off as more of an H than M guy, but these past few sessions have convinced me otherwise.

Who has experience with both speakers and can compare and contrast?
Amp: Komet 60 (currently running EL34) and Orange Retro 50 (EL34). Amps set crunchy but only to classic rock gain levels.

Whilst we're about it, I've read some guys liking the Scumnico for the Greenback like mids with more sparkle. Any opionions?

Thanks!
Chris
 
Messages
3,766
I've had both. But I've never had the M75 by itself. Only paired with and H75.

Because of this, I have a pair of recordings. one with a Heritage G12M and the other the M75. Very different sounds...(surprised myself actually).. but both have qualities that would be considered good.

http://tylergrund.com/mp3/traynor_SM57.mp3

http://tylergrund.com/mp3/traynor_m75.mp3

So to say one is better then the other isn't going to happen. IMO.

Also, its important to note that the ONLY real reason I went to scumback after using the Hertiage was because I am using a 2x12 cab and the 25watt rating on the G12M wasn't really enough for my 50 watt Marshall/Traynor Head. I needed more wattage speakers to handle the load. OTherwise, the tone of hte Heritage by themselves really was spectacular.
 

Chrissy

Member
Messages
974
Thanks ever so much for the clips - you're right, there is a BIG difference based on those. Food for thought...
Chris
 
Messages
3,766
Thanks ever so much for the clips - you're right, there is a BIG difference based on those. Food for thought...
Chris
Now to be fair.... these clips where done days apart, and the amp settings where probably not exact.

If you want, I'd suggest hunting down a HUGE scumback recording session post that Jim did here a while back. I believe some of the comparison speakers used where some heritage G12M speakers. His clips will probably be close together since they didn't change ANY settings or anything.
 

Bo Faulkner

Member
Messages
3,823
I swapped m75s for the Heritage 20's in my 2x12 germino cab and I MUCH prefer the scumbacks.. tighter punchier lows... present clear highs and the mids are perfect for me.. The heritage 20's sound a little messy to me when driven. They are really good at low volume though
 

Seegs

Member
Messages
10,170
Hi Chris...Jim...we gotta stop meeting like this:AOK

just my .02 noncents...

In Tyler's clips I preferred the first clip...nice and articulate and dripping with harmonics...the second clip was a bit darker...tighter and more constipated sounding...not sure which was which speaker though...the first one sounded more like Jim's M clips to me...

In Jim's clips I preffered the Scumback Ms in every case to the Heritage 20s...London W/ Strat Lp and Marshall LP...

in all honesty I also much preferred the H clips to the M clips especially with a Les Paul...

Chow,
Seegs
 
Messages
12,052
I have a friend with the M/H combo in a Marshalll 4x12 that is perfect. He uses it live with a Soldano SLO. An exquisite combination.
 

clay49

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
3,630
I just recently ordered a pair of Scumbacks for my Avatar Vintage 2x12 cab it is a M75/H75 combination. They will be replacing a Celestion G12H30/Vintage 30 combo which is just too covered sounding and not quite tight enough for me in the low end when driven.

Jim told me they were currently sold out, so I'll be waiting about 3 weeks to get them...I'll post my thoughts once I get them into the cab....:cool:
 
Messages
3,766
...In Tyler's clips I preferred the first clip...nice and articulate and dripping with harmonics...the second clip was a bit darker...tighter and more constipated sounding...not sure which was which speaker though...the first one sounded more like Jim's M clips to me...
Bad news is that the first clip (with the SM57 in the name) is the Heritage speakers..

...but I have a feeling the harmonics and such you like more has a lot to do with brand new strings on the LP for the first clip, and dull old strings in the second. But I'm not sure.

To be sure, the Heritage G12M is a great speaker. I honestly don't think Scumbacks are better OR worse. They are equal, but for different reasons. Folks should be careful about any hype and understand both are great options.
 

SlyStrat

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
4,524
It doesn't sound like you recorded the second clip with the same mix. There's no treble in it.

I've owned Scumbacks and loved them.
 
Messages
3,766
It doesn't sound like you recorded the second clip with the same mix. There's no treble in it.

I've owned Scumbacks and loved them.
Mix? What does that mean? I don't alter my recordings with any EQ. And because the amp is a Marshall style topology, the Treble, bass and Mids are maxed on the amp for both clips. Its POSSIBLE, the mic placement was slightly off from one to the other, but I don't think it was that off.
 

gkelm

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
3,752
It doesn't sound like you recorded the second clip with the same mix. There's no treble in it.

I've owned Scumbacks and loved them.
Love my Scummies too. You know, even a very small difference mic placement/angle can make a significant difference.
 

dewman

Member
Messages
5,750
in open backed cabs I felt the Heritage G12M mush out, but recently I have been diming the bass, mids and almost diming the treble - specifically with these speakers- and they sound great. There is something unusual about these, the EQ settings on greenbacks and scumbacks just dont apply to the heritage 20 watters. once you max the EQ and juice them up, they sound killer and the lower volume is a plus. I really like them now, more so in closed back cabs, but they sound ok to me with the EQ maxed in open backed cabs. try that and see if it works for you...
 

DavidS

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
716
Well, I'm using both in the same Marshall 1966a slant 2x12 cab with a 2061x. Heritage G12M-20 watt on top left, Scumback M75-25 watt lower right. Both speakers are well broken in, but I don't have a lot of time with this combo yet, so these are my preliminary thoughts.

The M75 is slightly louded with more low mids, tighter bottom, and a sweet top end compared to the G12M. The G12M has more upper mids, slightly fizzy top end and more krang tone to it. I actually think these two sound good together and are somewhat complementary. I previously had the G12M paired with a Rola G12-65 and thought the cab sounded too dark. Much better with the Scumback. I would like to try another M75 paired with the M75 or possibly a H75. But for a lower volume cab, the G12M/M75 is pretty sweet. That being said, if I were buying one speaker...Scumback all the way!
 




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