Thoughts on this Gibson?!?

[teleking36]

I'm very interested in going after this guitar. It looks good for the most part, but the lack of a LP logo on the headstock has me a bit apprehensive. Any care to share their thoughts on this one?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...610867&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_500wt_1154

 

[esoteric pete]

ive seen a few jr's with no "les paul" script....

call gibson with the serial number and they can verify it for you.

 

[frank62]

Could be an SG Junior or a Les Paul Junior. Either way it is one fine old guitar.

 

[captain_bob]

Looks like good wood with a good price. But as mentioned before, I would try to verify with Gibson.

 

[Bruce Bennett]

yeah thats real, I've seen plenty of That model with no "LP" logo on them.


Gibson repeated their series number 3 times during 1960-1974 they lost contracts with artists and changed hands ( Norlin took over) they had catalog inconsitantincies galore. which is why George Gruhn stated that serial numbers are only one method of dateing a Vintage Gibson you must also look at the Architechtural details to place it within the right 3-5 year period first.

this is a 1961 LP JR
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:...4xy9g70&t=1&usg=___boFB4-wDkHPO2YZPIWuwEzOY3k=


and just to confuse you further..
This was listed in the catalog as a 1960 SG TV

http://rockbeareguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/gibson_les_paul_tv_junior_1.jpg

they made Double Cut LPs , LP Specials and Jrs ... and then SG shaped LPs and Specials and Jrs nearly all at the same time.

truth is... back in those days, Gibson Didn't know or care what they were making. they just wanted it to go out the door.

 

[Help!I'maRock!]

truth is... back in those days, Gibson Didn't know or care what they were making. they just wanted it to go out the door.

meet the new boss. same as the old boss.

 

[teleking36]

thanks for the help guys! i'm very interested in putting a bid in for it. the guy seems to know what's going on and it looks like he's contacted Gibson about that very issue. it should have a healthy sized neck as well, which is something that's kept me from considering any later 60s juniors.

 

[TheBigAngry]

This is an SG Jr. In 61 they called the SG the Les Paul Solid Guitar until Les Paul made them take his name of the guitar. The real Les Paul models were discontinued from 61-67 and reintroduced in 68. On a side note, the SG Jr. and SG Special were great guitars and responsible for Pete Townshend's tone on LIVE AT LEEDS.

 

[Bruce Bennett]

meet the new boss. same as the old boss.

ain't it the truth.

Oh and I got that idea from talking with some of the original 1950s Gibson employees. seems they had impossible quotas too.

 

[DrumBob]

It's an SG Junior for sure and most likely not a '61. Les Paul and Mary Ford started divorce proceedings around '62, and since Les's contract was coming up for renewal, the decision was made to take his name off all the guitars. It officially came off around '63, so I would bet this guitar is a '63-64.

In any event, I'm sure it's a killer, regardless of the lack of a name on the headstock. Go for it.

 

[treeofpain]

I disagree. It looks like a real 61 in nice condition. Most of the 61 SG Juniors I've played have fairly slim necks. If you are looking for a chunky neck, try before you buy. They actually tend to get a little beefier in the 63-64 timeframe.

 

[cjp54]

Nice Guitar! Good luck. If the pots are original you can at least see what date codes are on the pots if you win the bidding.

 

[27sauce]

It's an SG Junior for sure and most likely not a '61. Les Paul and Mary Ford started divorce proceedings around '62, and since Les's contract was coming up for renewal, the decision was made to take his name off all the guitars. It officially came off around '63, so I would bet this guitar is a '63-64.

In any event, I'm sure it's a killer, regardless of the lack of a name on the headstock. Go for it.

A '63-'64 would have a parallel, compensated tailpiece. Its got all of the features of a '61, and at the latest an early '62.

 

[Dewey Decibel]

thanks for the help guys! i'm very interested in putting a bid in for it. the guy seems to know what's going on and it looks like he's contacted Gibson about that very issue. it should have a healthy sized neck as well, which is something that's kept me from considering any later 60s juniors.

Look at the profile shot of the headstock/neck, looks kind of slim to me. '65 SG Jrs often have chunky necks, I'd look for a '64 or '65 myself (in fact I wuz for awhile...).

 

[bluesjuke]

This is an SG Jr. In 61 they called the SG the Les Paul Solid Guitar until Les Paul made them take his name of the guitar. The real Les Paul models were discontinued from 61-67 and reintroduced in 68. On a side note, the SG Jr. and SG Special were great guitars and responsible for Pete Townshend's tone on LIVE AT LEEDS.

It's an SG Junior for sure and most likely not a '61. Les Paul and Mary Ford started divorce proceedings around '62, and since Les's contract was coming up for renewal, the decision was made to take his name off all the guitars. It officially came off around '63, so I would bet this guitar is a '63-64.

In any event, I'm sure it's a killer, regardless of the lack of a name on the headstock. Go for it.

Les said he had them take the name off as he didn't endorse or like the guitar and it is rumored that he had not been consulted beforehand.

It is also correct that he let his contract lapse due to the divorce that began in '62 when his contract came up for renewal.
Ted McCarty also has said that Les Pual's name wasn't the commercial bonus it once was due to less hits coming out with time passing.

 

[Cody]

A '63-'64 would have a parallel, compensated tailpiece. Its got all of the features of a '61, and at the latest an early '62.

+1

The one thing that MIGHT cause me some concern is how dark the finish appears to be at the neck/body joint.

Might just be the pics... but it might also be a touch-up following a repair/re-gluing of the neck.
..

 

[Radagacuca]

i have a 64 sg special.
mine has the neck with the narrow nut width.
it has a very pronounced taper. it´s thin at the nut but gets kind of chunky by the 12th fret. i love that neck carve.

on that specific guitar i´d really look closely at the neck joint as cody mentioned already. these are great guitars.
i need a neck pickup though.

 

[teleking36]

hey guys,

i asked the seller about the neck joint, and he says it's just a shadow a bad photography skills. he says it's never had a neck reset.

i did some more research and it looks like i might favor the 63-65 juniors as they appear to have bigger necks. I don't like the tiny slim carve necks, but i don't want a giant one either. too bad, because the pricing is right in my wheelhouse. i certainly can't pay $4-5k for the ones listed on Gbase, etc.

 

[TheBigAngry]

The serial denotes mid year 61 however, the headstock should have Les Paul on the headstock silk screened in. The logo came off in 63 but then again if Gibson quality control back then was as it is now, anything can happen.