Time Person of the Year

Discussion in 'The Pub' started by D. Stewart, Dec 6, 2017.


  1. Boris Bubbanov

    Boris Bubbanov Member

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    Nobody knows all the facts. We accumulate "information" and we decide what parts of it are credible and which may have been manufactured, and we sort of "weigh it on the fly" while keeping in mind what harm may befall certain accusers if they are hung out to dry (like Ms. Hill once was). For many, there's a different calculus if it involved a victim under the age of consent, special weight assigned where credible accusation of rape is made and extraordinary weight when the rape results in a pregnancy or involved force against a child.

    We're all dancing around, to some degree, because there are going to be more facts gathered and there's going to be more deliberations. The actions of the Public here are, or should be, in the nature of a judge considering granting a Temporary Restraining Order. If risk of further harm is most evident, sometimes we're forced to make choices now that just can't wait.

    There's things going on here that we suspect, but can't prove. There's a sense that the bad ways of the past might be replaced by new ways that are just as bad in their own way. To me, this is what Society gets when they fail to try to catch up with where they should be. I'm hearing so many rumblings from people who are just prepared to "Give Up on the System" altogether - I'm trying to devise some kind of slowed down transition to where things should be that won't result in some sort of violent counter-reaction.
     
  2. 2HBStrat

    2HBStrat Member

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    I'm out.....if you don't understand what I'm saying based on my previous posts in this thread then I'm afraid that nothing else that I type will improve your understanding.....
     
  3. A-Bone

    A-Bone Montonero, MOY, Multitudes Gold Supporting Member

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    That's a copout. We all get the first part you've suggested incessantly: that these men have been treated unfairly based on accusations. It's the other part specifically related to the notion of all these stories coming out now not being coincidental, with implications of something dark, on which we'd like some clarity. This sort of caginess is tedious and annoying. Why do you think these stories are coming out now?
     
  4. EricPeterson

    EricPeterson Supporting Member

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    I think I understand fully, you shot off spouting a bunch of nonsense about a situation you did not fully understand in order to support some preconceived narrative of male "victimization" at the hands of unscrupulous female accusers, and then when you were confronted with information that did not support your narrative you rejected it, and doubled down on your unsupported position.
     
  5. Timcito

    Timcito Member

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    Quite honestly, I think it makes little difference. The important thing, as always, seems to be that you find something to discredit or contradict, and, once you've kicked up some dissent, you don't let go until you 'win.' An alert from you is always some niggling and quarrelsome correction. Gimme a break! :worried
     
  6. chrisjw5

    chrisjw5 Member

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    Very true. None of what's happened so far - and I applaud all of it, as personally awkward and arms-length painful as some of it may be (it hurts to lose people you liked, even when you have to) - does anything to help my wife or my sister. One report would torpedo their careers. Both work in fairly small circles and without a public platform to insulate them from blowback, they'd be praised as "brave" and then never work again, becuase they "just aren't a right fit".

    Burn the whole thing down.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  7. chrisjw5

    chrisjw5 Member

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    But you're talking to a guy who can't read his girlfriend or his bass player and has trouble with Thanksgiving dinner plans. He's not going to get the intricacies of how major corporations HR departments work, nor is he willing to acknowledge that - in many of these cases - the rumors existed for years and couldn't be substantiated for years (or were willfully ignored because of the money being brought in). NBC, et. al. needed a credible allegation to follow-up on what they'd known for years. You know, due process, HR style.

    Plus, he might have noticed that he's gotten exactly zero support in this thread, so factor that in before engaging further.
     
  8. TheGuildedAge

    TheGuildedAge Supporting Member

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    It would have been shorter to just type that you were wrong and you're sorry.
     
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  9. AZChilicat

    AZChilicat Member

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    Reality. Try it some time!
    So the actual facts of the conversation make little difference as long as you can tell me how horrible I am? Pointing out that you didn't say what you claim to have said is a "niggling and quarrelsome correction?" Hey, whatever floats your boat.
     
  10. fetishfrog

    fetishfrog Member

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    My wife and I were discussing this just the other night in relation to actresses who were deemed 'difficult to work with'. I have to wonder what that really meant.
     
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  11. seajay

    seajay Member

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    I'm not sure that he ever does that.
     
  12. FiestaRed

    FiestaRed Gold Supporting Member

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    I'm thinking he's a little "simpler" than the average bear.
     
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  13. chrisjw5

    chrisjw5 Member

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    To be fair, this whole thing requires more than a little self-reflection, empathy and re-centering. I question any man who says that this reckoning has been intellectually easy; they're probably not telling the whole truth.

    Louis C.K. and Al Franken were hard for me to wrap my head around. Having a great wife who is willing to let me talk this out with her has been a tremendous help. This is what growth feels like.
     
  14. shane88

    shane88 Member

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  15. zekmoe

    zekmoe Member

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    We have a lawyer from an expense nyc firm that specializes in HR sexual harassment training come speak to the company about every other year. A pro speaker, almost like a standup in his presentation. He makes it pretty clear. If you’re peers, you can ask someone out, but not over and over if they say no. No pressure on them. You should refrain if you’re in a supervisory position with this person although it does happen. Use common sense as that seems to reign clear in most places despite what we think. Did Lauer just ask out coworkers and get fired for it? No, he did what most people would think is wildly inappropriate. I know at my company the CEO would get launched in a microsecond if he was accused of what Lauer appears to be without the slightest hesitation. He’d be vaporized as the company sells on its reputation and that kind of tarnish doesn’t easily come off.
     
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  16. 2HBStrat

    2HBStrat Member

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    I have certainly said that I was wrong, or admitted when I have misread a post or whatever, and even had my opinion changed about something and admitted it ("Sweet Home Alabama" is in G), but this isn't like that. This is just my opinion, and I think I'm entitled to have it, even if others don't agree with it, or me. Hey, we WON'T all ever agree on everything all the time, and....that's okay....if we DID agree on everything there would be no point in a discussion forum....I certainly respect everyone else's right to their opinions, too....
     
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  17. hereandgone18

    hereandgone18 Supporting Member

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    2HB, everyone is allowed to have their own opinion, but an opinion is defined as a perspective that is not rooted in facts, evidence, or knowledge.

    The fact that you’re expressing an opinion, without any substance to support it at all, is exactly why you’re getting the reaction that you are in this thread. Opinion IS the problem, regardless of whether or not you are entitled to have one.
     
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  18. TaoInMotion

    TaoInMotion Member

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    And the purge continues ...
     
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  19. el capitan

    el capitan Member

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    Nuthin gets the ladies in a lather like hangin’ brains!
     
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  20. iamdavea

    iamdavea Silver Supporting Member

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    When allegations are proven true, they become facts. That appears to be the case with, at least, Rose and Lauer. Understand?
     

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