Timmy version question

Discussion in 'Effects, Pedals, Strings & Things' started by hector, Jun 18, 2014.

  1. hector

    hector Member

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    I had the original Timmy and really liked it. Then I got version 2, with the toggle on top, and everything sounded the same. Then, the new colors came out and the op amp chip has changed. I didn't like it so much (although some people do). I believe Paul C went back to the original op amp chip for some reason, and I got one of "these" pedals. While the op amp is back to the original, the tone was a little different. I see that a few other things on the board have different values.

    Anyhow, my favorite Timmy is Version 2, first revision. Just like the original, but with the toggle switch on top, and standard blue color. I'd like to buy another, if I can be sure to get this one.
     
  2. lifeinsong

    lifeinsong Member

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    Contact Paul C and I'm sure he'll answer any questions you have. Send him a PM, he's a great guy.
     
  3. coltonius

    coltonius SeƱor Member Silver Supporting Member

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    The different op amps are an easy swap, but I didn't know he changed component values as well.

    This is like.. the third new thing I've learned in 2 days. I'm gonna start hanging out here more often!
     
  4. FenderBigot

    FenderBigot Supporting Member

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    Paul has said, several times, there is no circuit change between the versions. As you pointed out already, the chip is the only difference in the colors.
     
  5. hector

    hector Member

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    Maybe. I'm a mechanical engineer, not electrical. But the two Timmys that I own have the same op amp chip, but the board looks a little different, and the sound is different at the same settings. Not trying to make a big deal out of it. Just saying that I like one better than the other. Maybe I can get a picture of the two boards side by side tonight.
     
  6. crifasta

    crifasta Gold Supporting Member

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    I believe Paul C. has stated that the tone pots have a different taper than they used to. This means that if you set the knobs the same on both versions, they'll sound different so you'd have to set them at different levels to achieve the same tone.

    That said, I have an old original one (no external toggle) and even with the same chip as the custom color ones, it sounds different (I've had 3 of the custom ones). Maybe it's me but the original just sounds a bit ballsier.
     
  7. Funky Monkey

    Funky Monkey Member

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    FWIW, my sparkle blue Guitar X Timmy has the exact same chip as the standard Timmy.
     
  8. jakethesnake

    jakethesnake Supporting Member

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    Yeah, I remember reading that somewhere on here.
     
  9. crxshdxmmy

    crxshdxmmy Supporting Member

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    Pretty sure there have been a few minor changes to the circuit over the years. A couple small component value changes, different pots and maybe others. I thought the V2 I played sounded a touch different than my V1 perfboard version.... but it still sounded good.
     
  10. hector

    hector Member

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    And yeah, they all sound good. Just saying that with the knobs at the same position, some sound different. But, if that's the pot taper, then it's just a matter of turning the knob a bit, I suppose.
     
  11. joepublic

    joepublic Member

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    Hmm. I too was under the impression that the only difference between one new V2 Timmy and another (different colors) was just the IC.

    So I guess it's actually...different "vintages" (I know they aint vintage) have slight differences (pots?) other than the different opamps?

    So if you take a brand new blue V2 Timmy and compare it to an earlier blue V2 Timmy there will be some different values of components (pots) in there?

    But take a brand new current V2 Timmy in blue and compare it to a brand new V2 Timmy in surf green the only difference will be the opamp chip?

    If all that is true it's probably just a matter of time before the older versions of the V2 Timmys will be more valuable and desirable than the current ones? You know..just because that's how gear works?.

    For a minute there I was thinking (hoping) that there were more differences between the green and blue (for example) Timmy pedals than just the opamp because I have a surf green one. I haven't compared it to any other Timmy pedals tonally or visually internally. All I know is that it kicks!!! And that the green ones are somehow more desirable and expensive in the used market. And it doesn't seem to be just due to the color.

    SO...for the OP...IF all the Timmy V2s are pretty much the same from one color to the next (only the opamp differs) all you have to do is pick up a couple or few $0.50 ICs and try swapping them out till you find one you like.

    Depending on an overdrive's design, the opamp can have next to no effect or it can have more effect.
    I build some Eternity clones and they use diode clipping. The original Eternity pedals have the ID scratched-off the chip. The original is still a "mystery chip". There are some fairly unanimous guesses that it's an LM1458.
    I have an original E and some of my clones and a handful of different ICs. I've tried all of them in my clones including the actual E's mystery chip. There is not a lot of difference. BUT as was mentioned in this thread, I haven't tried swapping opamps in a gig setting but at home, there is not a lot of difference.
    Plugging the actual mystery chip into my clones doesn't bring the rest of the way there and putting an LM833 for example into the real E doesn't make it sound much different either.

    But the Timmy I don't think, is diode clipped? Wait...I must be out to lunch...the switch changes the clipping (diodes? sym/assym etc)...I haven't even been inside the thing.
    I know it isn't a standard Screamer design but if it uses diode clipping, the opamp isn't gonna make an huge difference. ??? Or is it in the Timmy?

    Either way, I have a surf green one, it sounds great, has a 1458 in it, I haven't A/B tested it against a different colored one, and afaik the only difference between it and a blue or white or black one is the opamp. If that is the case, grab a few (including a 1458) for like a dollar and start playing around.

    Thanks for the "different pots" lesson. I thought they were all the same other than the opamp.

    And a FYI/BTW... I don't use my Timmy. As awesome as it is I prefer my E clone on my main board and I use a CMATMODS SignaDrive on my small/travel board.
    The surf green Timmy will be on the chopping block fairly soon.
     
  12. crxshdxmmy

    crxshdxmmy Supporting Member

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    :wave

    And this, too... for good measure:

     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2014
  13. hector

    hector Member

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    Here's my two Timmys.
    The left is a newer V2 blue one.
    The right is a purple V2.
    (sorry for the bad phone photo)

    The left one has something extra to the left of the JRC chip.

    Again, not over analyzing. I like these pedals.
    Just trying to figure out why they sound a little different.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. CaptainAwesome

    CaptainAwesome Supporting Member

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    You should read the quote from Paul that was posted above (3rd one). In it, he explains the purpose of the extra cap that you see in the photo.
     
  15. PaulC

    PaulC Member

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    Well - there's even a newer version... For about the past year I changed the volume pot value and soldered a resistor on it to smooth it's taper. In the old style unity gain was about 2 o'clock with all the volume boost going on in the small area between 2 and 5 o'clock. That always bugged me, but using a linear pot was worse - that would put unity at around 9 o'clock making it a useless control imho. With the gain at zero the pedal puts out 12dB, so changing the volume to 25ka and adding an 18k resistor from input to output fixed this for me. I calculated the 18k value to put the control -12dB at 12 o'clock making it unity at that setting. Like the treble pot change this was about smoothing the taper and not about changing the sound. It doesn't sound different - the min and max settings are the same. Just the settings in the middle are tweaked to not be so touchy.

    About two pcb batches ago I added this resistor to the board because it was a pain to solder them on to the pot. I didn't call this a new version because I don't want people to think it sounds different enough to get them to buy it again. The sounds are all there - just at a little different knob setting. These are all pretty much mechanical tweaks and not tone tweaks

    Another change that ALWAYS happens is the resistor that feeds the LED. Those blue leds are all over the map when it comes to brightness, so in every pedal I have to adjust the value. I have a jig made with a dozen or so resistors in it. I plug in an LED and move it around to find the value that's not to bright or to dark. Then I put that value on the pcb with that led. This does not effect the tone - just the brightness of the led.

    PaulC
    Timmy pedals
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2014
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  16. hector

    hector Member

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    Thanks so much for the explanation, Paul. I've had a Timmy pedal on each of my boards for a few years now. I do turn the tone knob down on the blue version to get the sound I like. So, yeah, it all makes sense now. I've gone through many pedals over the last couple of years (a TGP thing I suppose), but the Timmy has always remained with me.
     

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