Tom Jones and songs that are NOT ok.

wire-n-wood

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
4,539
Tom Jones sang at a big national football final in Australia this weekend. Among the clangers and bloopers, he sang Delilah. The song includes the lyrics about stabbing a cheating lover:

At break of day when that man drove away, I was waiting
I cross the street to her house and she opened the doorShe stood there laughing
I felt the knife in my hand and she laughed no more.
There's plenty of comment in Australia (and I think in the USA) that sports need to be more serious about domestic violence.
http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/ed...-afl-grand-final/story-fndv7pj3-1227073575619

How do you feel about songs that include themes like domestic violence?

Our band doesn't do Delilah (thankfully). But we do cover Hey Joe which is about a man escaping to Mexico after shooting his wife. It's like a legend of an anti-hero.

My view is that art (literature or music) can legitimately tell brutal human stories and dark tales. But that's probably easier to accept in a book, which (1) people don't need to read, and (2) usually provides much more context. When it comes to a song, (1) people at the venue who weren't expecting that particular song can be jumped by it, and (2) a song tends to leave it much more open to interpretation - whether the grizzly crime is being glorified, immortalized, celebrated...

So I'm conflicted. I'm really not 100% comfortable with performing songs like that. But I also don't like the idea of shying away from telling dark stories from the shady side of humanity. I'd hate to self-censor and sanitize song lists until the edginess is all gone.

Any thoughts or insights on this?
 

flatfinger

Member
Messages
2,145
This culture of ours isn't always about staying classy ; Spent the afternoon on the couch with my 8 year old girl watching NFL and muting or changing the channel for all the cialis commercials ........ doesn't it seem like we ought to be able to hang out in front of a sporting event on TV W/O hearing the words " erectile disfunction " or Four hour erection " ??????
 

paranoid70

Member
Messages
6,478
Tom Jones sang at a big national football final in Australia this weekend. Among the clangers and bloopers, he sang Delilah. The song includes the lyrics about stabbing a cheating lover:



There's plenty of comment in Australia (and I think in the USA) that sports need to be more serious about domestic violence.
http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/ed...-afl-grand-final/story-fndv7pj3-1227073575619

How do you feel about songs that include themes like domestic violence?

Our band doesn't do Delilah (thankfully). But we do cover Hey Joe which is about a man escaping to Mexico after shooting his wife. It's like a legend of an anti-hero.

My view is that art (literature or music) can legitimately tell brutal human stories and dark tales. But that's probably easier to accept in a book, which (1) people don't need to read, and (2) usually provides much more context. When it comes to a song, (1) people at the venue who weren't expecting that particular song can be jumped by it, and (2) a song tends to leave it much more open to interpretation - whether the grizzly crime is being glorified, immortalized, celebrated...

So I'm conflicted. I'm really not 100% comfortable with performing songs like that. But I also don't like the idea of shying away from telling dark stories from the shady side of humanity. I'd hate to self-censor and sanitize song lists until the edginess is all gone.

Any thoughts or insights on this?
I grew up listening to Slayer, so a Tom Jones song couldn't possibly offend me.
 

wire-n-wood

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
4,539
Also , If you think about probably a third of
pop songs make sexual innuendos...
Yeah, that's what rock and roll is. That's life. Sex is cool. But domestic violence is not cool.
I grew up listening to Slayer, so a Tom Jones song couldn't possibly offend me.
Ok. I don't really know Slayer, but at least I've now seen them in the same sentence as Tom Jones.
 

therhodeo

Member
Messages
10,122
That's an old old theme in songs. Not 5 minutes ago I heard Elvis say something like "I'd rather see you dead than with another man" and that was from his Sun recordings. There are tons and tons of songs with that theme.
 

Greentone

Member
Messages
2,905
That's an old old theme in songs. Not 5 minutes ago I heard Elvis say something like "I'd rather see you dead than with another man" and that was from his Sun recordings. There are tons and tons of songs with that theme.
From "Baby, Lets Play House". Killer tune!
 

GulfportBound

Member
Messages
8,612
Be glad Tom Jones didn't think about trying this one . . .



. . . which is exactly what Pat Hare did, a few years after making that record, when---already battling the bottle seriously---he shot his girl friend dead, this at a time when he was Muddy Waters' lead guitarist. Hare spent the rest of his life in prison; he died of cancer there in 1980, at 49.
 

Turi

Member
Messages
9,485
I didn't think the Hawks would trash the Swannies so hard to be honest.
I was going for the Hawks, but I thought they might win by a couple of points, not trash 'em.

Makes no difference to me, as a 'Pies supporter though (or, in reality, a Storm supporter :D)

I've never liked Tom Jones so I didn't watch him sing. Can't stand his voice. :/

I also skip songs that have **** lyrics.. I mean, some artists do it tastefully, but when it gets all clichè stabbed her with my knife and she "laughed no more" eh, I turn off.

I'm all for artists singing about whatever they want to sing about, I can always turn that crap off (like I did with ol' mate TJ), but yeah, I agree with you in that, I've read your post to be "I don't want to sing **** lyrics".
I agree with that 100%.

I kinda feel like you're not so much worried about the domestic violence stuff, as you are with having to sing songs with **** lyrics.

**** lyrics are **** lyrics.
 

xjojox

Tardis-dwelling wanker
Messages
5,741
The emotions of a wronged lover are some of the most intense in human experience. They have been expressed in song, poetry, drama, and all kinds of other art for millennia. And that will continue to be the case because it is a part of the human experience.

I don't have a problem with people, even children, being exposed to the utter truth that infidelity can (and often does) lead to violence, because it's accurate. There is a lesson in it. Infidelity is evil. Evil begets evil. Such is the world we live in. Any glorification is in the mind of the listener. It's just a story about the human condition, and it does not presume to glorify the cheater or the person taking revenge.

As compared to the open advocacy and celebration of violence, misogyny, and thuggery that is rampant in rap and some darker metal, Delilah comes across as pretty quaint. And the Hey Joe reference is apropos in more ways than one. I don't think anyone ever considered the idea that Jimi was directly or indirectly advocating killing a cheating lover, he was just telling a story. Tom Jones doesn't get the same consideration? I understand the conflict, but I think it's being overthought. Far more distasteful things have happened at sporting events.
 

Turi

Member
Messages
9,485
The emotions of a wronged lover are some of the most intense in human experience. They have been expressed in song, poetry, drama, and all kinds of other art for millennia. And that will continue to be the case because it is a part of the human experience.

I don't have a problem with people, even children, being exposed to the utter truth that infidelity can (and often does) lead to violence, because it's accurate. There is a lesson in it. Infidelity is evil. Evil begets evil. Such is the world we live in. Any glorification is in the mind of the listener. It's just a story about the human condition, and it does not presume to glorify the cheater or the person taking revenge.

As compared to the open advocacy and celebration of violence, misogyny, and thuggery that is rampant in rap and some darker metal, Delilah comes across as pretty quaint. And the Hey Joe reference is apropos in more ways than one. I don't think anyone ever considered the idea that Jimi was directly or indirectly advocating killing a cheating lover, he was just telling a story. Tom Jones doesn't get the same consideration? I understand the conflict, but I think it's being overthought. Far more distasteful things have happened at sporting events.
And did, at this exact game.

Racial slurs, homophobic slurs, some chick who stripped whilst there is kids around..

All the usual AFL stuff. :D
 

wire-n-wood

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
4,539
And did, at this exact game.

Racial slurs, homophobic slurs, some chick who stripped whilst there is kids around..

All the usual AFL stuff. :D
"Racial slurs" - ignorant, hurtful, ugly, abusive.
"homophobic slurs" - ignorant, hurtful, ugly, abusive.
"some chick who stripped" - hurts no one.
"kids around" - have they never seen performance art before?
 

Coldacre

Senior Member
Messages
9,839
so basically all songs should be Flanders approved. this is a joke right? it's music! dark themes are great! it's not advocating violence, it's telling a story. you know, fictional.

Tom Jones was brilliant at the grand final! and his band sounded fantastic, they had a bit of a Bad Seeds vibe. nothing but class.
 

Turi

Member
Messages
9,485
"Racial slurs" - ignorant, hurtful, ugly, abusive.
"homophobic slurs" - ignorant, hurtful, ugly, abusive.
"some chick who stripped" - hurts no one.
"kids around" - have they never seen performance art before?
Hahaha.. nice.
 

Stu Cats

Senior Member
Messages
15,255
Yeah, that's what rock and roll is. That's life. Sex is cool. But domestic violence is not cool.

Ok. I don't really know Slayer, but at least I've now seen them in the same sentence as Tom Jones.

It's not unusual to sacrifice anyone.
 

wire-n-wood

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
4,539
I didn't think the Hawks would trash the Swannies so hard to be honest.
I was going for the Hawks, but I thought they might win by a couple of points, not trash 'em.

Makes no difference to me, as a 'Pies supporter though (or, in reality, a Storm supporter :D)

I've never liked Tom Jones so I didn't watch him sing. Can't stand his voice. :/

I also skip songs that have **** lyrics.. I mean, some artists do it tastefully, but when it gets all clichè stabbed her with my knife and she "laughed no more" eh, I turn off.

I'm all for artists singing about whatever they want to sing about, I can always turn that crap off (like I did with ol' mate TJ), but yeah, I agree with you in that, I've read your post to be "I don't want to sing **** lyrics".
I agree with that 100%.

I kinda feel like you're not so much worried about the domestic violence stuff, as you are with having to sing songs with **** lyrics.

**** lyrics are **** lyrics.
Yeah, as a part-time singer, I can choose the handful of songs I sing. But mostly, I'm just on guitar. The main singer (and bass player) chooses most of the songs he sings and takes a few suggestions from the rest of us. So the real question I have to answer is - if he wants to sing a song with ****** lyrics, do I veto it?

There's only three reasons I'd veto a song.
1 - If I can't do it justice on the guitar (or as a band).
2 - If the song sucks 3 minutes of joy out of the universe.
3 - If I have a principled objection... e.g., it makes light of violence, racism, stuff like that.

So I'm really just thinking out loud.
 

shane8

Member
Messages
31,600
what I'm not comfortable with is foreigners performing at "our" big events

we have enough home grown talent

& yes I'd like to have a beer with Duncan :p
 






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