Treble Bleed circuits

Discussion in 'Guitars in General' started by WarBeer, May 28, 2015.

  1. WarBeer

    WarBeer Member

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    I've been looking into treble-bleed again. I notice that there's a few different approaches. I've got a cheap guitar that I installed one in YEARS ago...I don't even remember what I did.(I think it was just a straight cap) I thought that I had remembered that guitar sounding descent, however, after plugging it in recently...ugh! Thin and Ice-pick...and it won't shut off completely.

    So, questions...

    Do "all" TB circuits prevent you from completely turning the volume off at the pot?

    Do all the TB's thin your sound? (any version preferred over another?)

    Clearly, there's some subjectivity with regard to sound perception...just thought maybe some of you could either point me in the right direction or let me know if it's moot. I'd love to roll my volume down and retain more highs...but I have to be able to reach zero volume...and I don't want my tone thinned a bit. Can you have your cake and eat it too with a TB or is the "thin, no zero" the price you pay with all the TB circuits?

    btw...it would be in a tele:)
     
  2. Jason_77

    Jason_77 Member

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    You may want to check out Fender's "grease bucket" circuit. It's supposed to roll off some low end relative to the highs as you turn the volume down so that the low end isn't too pronounced.

    Mind you, I've only recently become aware of it and have no personal experience with it, but it gets a lot of positive reviews online. Food for thought, at least. I do plan to try it out soon.
     
  3. EADGBE

    EADGBE Member

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    It's an easy mod to do and undo. I think it sounds fine.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Baxtercat

    Baxtercat Member

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    But don't use an .001 ^.... esp w/out a resistor, and esp. on a Tele.
    This is where the bad rap comes from.
    Too big, too harsh.

    Try a more subtle rig: say a 200k resistor parallel w/ a 180 pf cap for example.
    Just sounds more natural on the way down.
    Google, or just search TGP archives for tons of info on these.
     
  5. Husky

    Husky Gold Supporting Member

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    The longer the cable the higher the capacitance you are plugging in to the more you will feel you need a treble bleed.
    Do a 10ft cable going to a buffer and then the rest of your cable or effects and you might be able to get away from using any, you will still loose some sparkle though when turning down.

    Cap alone you might want to look at the pf range like 100~220pf max.
    Personally I like adding a resistor in parallel since it smooths out the response and can also make the pot a little more linear taper feeling which I like.
    680pf in parallel with 150K are pretty standard values with a 10% Audio Taper Pot (CTS style). If that is too much then lower the capacitor to lets say a 470pf or 220pf. The TB does not affect the abilty to turn the volume off unless the pot does not shut completely off to begin with.
     
  6. dazco

    dazco Member

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    Try a 250pf with a 250k trimmer in series with it. You can leave the plate off so you can adjust the trimmer till it retains only as much high end as you wish. I don't like tone controls, so on my tekles i have no tone control but instead i use the tone pot as i described using a trimmer. This way i can always have just the right amount of highs retained because it varies from sound to sound, amp to amp, song to song as to how much is just right. One reason some people don't like them is they can be just right at times and other times not. This way i have ful control, and the pot is no load so at 10 theres no treble bleed at all.
     
  7. 1radicalron

    1radicalron Member

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    I personally hate the TB Circut in a Tele. I find it colors my tone, and not in a good way. It can work on certain Guitars, but I think the Tele is all wrong for it.
    I wire my Tele's 50's style. - Helps retain highs as you roll off your vol. = If I want to control the vol taper, I will install a 480K Resistor only across lugs 1 and 2 of the vol pot. = this will smooth your vol taper, without coloring your tone.
    Another thing I like to do is - use a .010 or .015 cap for my tone control. Then I leave my tone knob turned down low to 0-3. Esp when I am on the bridge pup. = It kills off the really high freq's only, leaving all the mid's. = Sounds Incredible through a gained up amp!
     
  8. WarBeer

    WarBeer Member

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    That's some good info all-the-way-around! I haven't messed with this guitar at all. It's a Road Worn Blonde Tele....my buddy replaced the pickups with a set of "Nocaster" pickups...but I'm sure he left the wiring configuration alone.
     
  9. WarBeer

    WarBeer Member

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    Anyone have a suggestion for a straight-forward and succinct article on understanding wiring and it's effects on the signal path?
     
  10. darkinners

    darkinners Member

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    I tried many TB circuit and I don't like them
    Yes, it thin your tone. TB circuit just a progressive high pass circuit.
     
  11. bigtone23

    bigtone23 Member

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    680 pf/150k resistor in parallel sounds great in my Tele. 1000pF with the 150k does too.
     
  12. Roe

    Roe Member

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    With humbuckers and p90s (500k+ pot) I prefer a 39-68k resistor in series with a 750pf cap in parallell with a 220k or 270k resistor.
     
  13. dazco

    dazco Member

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    Saying treble bleed is bad is the same as saying cars handle like crap. Which car? there are as many ways to do TB as there are cars and the results vary wildly.
     
  14. TNJ

    TNJ Gold Supporting Member

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    I have a Strat that bleeds treble out to a muddy bassy tone when the volume pot goes from 10 to8.
    Very annoying…because at full volume, this Strat sounds magnificent.
    Someone posted a Gibson 50's wiring mod that is reversible and supposedly works quite well for this.
    I'm trying to find a tech to do mine ASAP.

    S.
    j
     
  15. RJLII

    RJLII Member

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    My Nocaster has a treble bleed (cap and resistor in parallel) from the factory. I didn't even know it was there until I installed some replacement pickups (Lollar Charlie Christians). I'm not sure what the values are but it's very effective, and takes me from a warm round sound to a more pronounced twang with just a little volume rolled off.
     
  16. GAT

    GAT Gold Supporting Member

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    I have TB in all my guitars. Love them.
     
  17. jrigg

    jrigg Gold Supporting Member

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    I use a treble bleed in the neck pickups of my Gibsons to get a Strat type neck tone when I turn down the volume. I've got a bunch of very low value caps, 200 to 80pF. I attach a wire using alligator clips to the posts on the pot and then with alligator clips on the opposite ends, attach and try out different values till I get the bass roll off I like for that guitar. I've used a 250k resistor in series, sometimes in parallel, sometimes not at all. I just tune the treble bleed for each of my Gibsons - 2 LPs, a 335, and SG. I don't like the treble bleed on the bridge pickup. It opens up so many tonal variations, especially when blended with the bridge pickup. Leaving the resistor out of the circuit allows the bass cut to increase significantly as the volume is turned down, which can be a good thing or bad thing depending on the guitar/pickups and what kind of tonal changes you are looking for.
     
  18. Roe

    Roe Member

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    yes, you need to experiment to find what you like. It depends on cables, pots, guitars etc
     
  19. Ron Kirn

    Ron Kirn Gold Supporting Member

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    Here's an Idea I have used, quite successfully over the years... I install a treble bleed circuit in all my guitars.. if the guy doesn't like it, I remove it.... Now I know something that complex may be hard to grasp for some... but with practice, you will find the system works quite well.

    the reason I Install 'em in all the guitars is, because if "You" don't care for it.. it's easier to remove something ya already have, than to remove something ya don't. Although I'm sure, somewhere there are some that would suggest removing something that doesn't exist will vastly improve tone... However, If you DO like it.. you can leave it alone, and keep on liking it... that's OK too...

    Now.. for all Actuaries, Underwriters, IRS Auditors, ATF Narcs, and the NOW gang... that's an attempt at humor... ... It's OK to chuckle... no one will think less of ya, if ya do...

    Ron Kirn
     
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