True Bypass Looper Switchers and Buffers. Just one at the front? Multiple?

mikoo69

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
2,519
I have 2 Voodoo Lab Hex Switchers (6 loops each). Both have buffers on the outputs of loop 6, that can be disabled.

To optimize my clean tone, when no effects are in the chain, I am thinking of disabling the buffers in the Hex's and just having one very high quality buffer up front that my guitar plugs directly into that's always on, removing any other "always on" buffers in the chain.

The only other always on buffer I may include is a Sound Sculpture Volcano (A midi controlled volume pedal device). This would go in between the 2 Hex Switchers, and apparently has a very high quality always on buffer. I could probably live without the Volcano as I don't rely too much on volume control at my feet...so if it means getting a better base tone, I'll forgo the Volcano.

I know I should just experiment, but from your experience would I do my base tone a favor by disabling the Hex buffers, getting rid of the Volcano and just using 1 high quality buffer directly after my guitar?
 

tubekingsley

Member
Messages
4,050
I have 2 Voodoo Lab Hex Switchers (6 loops each). Both have buffers on the outputs of loop 6, that can be disabled.

To optimize my clean tone, when no effects are in the chain, I am thinking of disabling the buffers in the Hex's and just having one very high quality buffer up front that my guitar plugs directly into that's always on, removing any other "always on" buffers in the chain.

The only other always on buffer I may include is a Sound Sculpture Volcano (A midi controlled volume pedal device). This would go in between the 2 Hex Switchers, and apparently has a very high quality always on buffer. I could probably live without the Volcano as I don't rely too much on volume control at my feet...so if it means getting a better base tone, I'll forgo the Volcano.

I know I should just experiment, but from your experience would I do my base tone a favor by disabling the Hex buffers, getting rid of the Volcano and just using 1 high quality buffer directly after my guitar?
Aren't the buffers located after loop 6, at the Hex output ? I'd place a buffer after my drive pedals, whether it be a dedicated buffer, or one of the Hex buffers. With 12 loops, I don't see the point in having more than one active buffer
 

8len8

Member
Messages
15,223
I'd place a buffer in front, so there's a low impedance there for all of the pedals and cabling.

If you also have a long cable to the amp then a buffer in back might be worth it too.
 

mikoo69

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
2,519
Aren't the buffers located after loop 6, at the Hex output ? I'd place a buffer after my drive pedals, whether it be a dedicated buffer, or one of the Hex buffers. With 12 loops, I don't see the point in having more than one active buffer

I was also thinking that the best place for the buffer would be AFTER the drive pedals so that the drive pedals can interact directly with my guitar; while I don't have any fuzzes that sound drastically different with a buffer, it still seems drive pedals sound a bit better seeing an unbuffered signal. So in this case, the very high quality Sound Sculpture Volcano would probably be the perfect solution to have 1 buffer in my chain (and disable the HEX Buffers). I don't think I would need a second one after the second Hex to drive to the amp at that point. The cable to the amp would only be about 12-20 ft)

The reason I was debating having one up front as the first thing my guitar hits is due to the nature of my rig. I have a Wah at the from of the stage my guitar plugs directly into (~ 12 - 25 foot cable from guitar to wah)...then my pedals are on a remote controlled board off to the side of the stage, so I have another ~12-25 foot cable from wah to the first Hex)....so before the Volcano, we're looking at between 25 - 50ft of cable + 1 Hex. This is why I was considering a buffer up front right before (or after) the wah....I guess I'll try this out and see what I find, though I tend to roll off a bit of high end on my guitar anyway and turn it up at the amp, so perhaps the 25-50ft of cable between my guitar and the first buffer will be preferred (for example I know Santana used a 50 foot cable before hitting a buffer to roll off "unnecessary" high end as his tech calls it). Perhaps I can experiment with cable lengths to the wah and to the pedalboard to find the optimal impedance for the rig.

I also wonder if I have a 12' cable to the wah and a 25' cable to the pedalboard, and then turn on the wah, will the wah act as the first buffer and now might my rig be overly bright (especially at toe down position)? Will have to experiment though if anyone has experience and suggestions, I appreciate it.
 

tubekingsley

Member
Messages
4,050
I was also thinking that the best place for the buffer would be AFTER the drive pedals so that the drive pedals can interact directly with my guitar; while I don't have any fuzzes that sound drastically different with a buffer, it still seems drive pedals sound a bit better seeing an unbuffered signal. So in this case, the very high quality Sound Sculpture Volcano would probably be the perfect solution to have 1 buffer in my chain (and disable the HEX Buffers). I don't think I would need a second one after the second Hex to drive to the amp at that point. The cable to the amp would only be about 12-20 ft)

The reason I was debating having one up front as the first thing my guitar hits is due to the nature of my rig. I have a Wah at the from of the stage my guitar plugs directly into (~ 12 - 25 foot cable from guitar to wah)...then my pedals are on a remote controlled board off to the side of the stage, so I have another ~12-25 foot cable from wah to the first Hex)....so before the Volcano, we're looking at between 25 - 50ft of cable + 1 Hex. This is why I was considering a buffer up front right before (or after) the wah....I guess I'll try this out and see what I find, though I tend to roll off a bit of high end on my guitar anyway and turn it up at the amp, so perhaps the 25-50ft of cable between my guitar and the first buffer will be preferred (for example I know Santana used a 50 foot cable before hitting a buffer to roll off "unnecessary" high end as his tech calls it). Perhaps I can experiment with cable lengths to the wah and to the pedalboard to find the optimal impedance for the rig.

I also wonder if I have a 12' cable to the wah and a 25' cable to the pedalboard, and then turn on the wah, will the wah act as the first buffer and now might my rig be overly bright (especially at toe down position)? Will have to experiment though if anyone has experience and suggestions, I appreciate it.
Test it out, that's the only way to really know for sure. Mission builds a buffered volume pedal with a variable impedance selector, maybe you could use one before your wah, and set the impedence so that it would prevent your wah from stomping on too bright. J Rockett builds a small, inexpensive buffer with an impedence dial, and the Empress may work, though it's a dual style buffer. I don't put a buffer before drive, but that is just a policy of mine, that isn't a steadfast rule, if necessity dictates. A variable impedence buffer would just give you some control over the out of the ordinary cable length distribution. But, you may not need that all, you'll just need to test the different options
 

CarlGuitarist

Member
Messages
4,110
Interesting thread, haven't really thought about impedance and drive pedals before. My musicom switcher only has an input buffer. Tomorrow I'll try and bypass the that buffer, and let my MXR reverb drive the signal to the amp after everything else
 

goddot

Member
Messages
2,433
Would a high quality buffer be necessary if you run an always on overdrive in front of the looper? like a boss overdrive? curios about this too
 




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