Trying to explain why I like SRV more than Bonamassa.

[NoahL]

Sometimes I wonder why I don't love Joe Bonamassa's stuff, since he has great taste, great tone, great chops, everything. Plus he seems like a stand-up guy, which never hurts if you want people to like your music. But I think I've figured it out. He rushes. Tell me if you agree. In fact, just watch these three videos, skipping to the solo sections in the middle. The first is SRV doing "Tightrope" live. Notice how SRV stretches the beat just a little all the time in his three-chorus solo, so perfect, coming in just behind it. The next is Specter, who always plays WAY behind the beat in a super-cool way. (Listen to the album version of this tune and it's even more pronounced.) Then listen to Bonamassa. His solo starts around 2:50, and as it progresses, he gets more and more on top of and even ahead of the beat. Am I right? It shapes his whole musical personality, and it's just not my preference. What do you think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNuXO60G33w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1O6UPXwapwY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMXXnLSRdBE

 

[candid_x]

I know what you're saying.

A friend I've played in bands with since 8th grade, with some pretty good jazz chops by then, and I got together for a year long project in our early 20's. Unless the rest of the rhythm section was strong, there would be tension when we played together, because he heard/felt everything dead on the beat, or even a little pushed, while I heard/felt everything a little behind on the beat. He also heard sharp while I heard flat. Bear in mind that these were 440 A tuning fork days.

I think a well rounded player should learn how to feel and use both, according to the song or group.

 

[Brock]

I think Stevie worked harder to get his tone out and did a wonderful job at it. I like Joe a lttle better because I feel he rocks out way more. For blues, I say Stevie, for rockin blues I say Joe.

 

[musicofanatic5]

Sometimes I wonder why I don't love Joe Bonamassa's stuff, since he has great taste, great tone, great chops, everything. Plus he seems like a stand-up guy, which never hurts if you want people to like your music. But I think I've figured it out. He rushes. Tell me if you agree. In fact, just watch these three videos, skipping to the solo sections in the middle. The first is SRV doing "Tightrope" live. Notice how SRV stretches the beat just a little all the time in his three-chorus solo, so perfect, coming in just behind it. The next is Specter, who always plays WAY behind the beat in a super-cool way. (Listen to the album version of this tune and it's even more pronounced.) Then listen to Bonamassa. His solo starts around 2:50, and as it progresses, he gets more and more on top of and even ahead of the beat. Am I right? It shapes his whole musical personality, and it's just not my preference. What do you think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNuXO60G33w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1O6UPXwapwY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMXXnLSRdBE

Astute observation. That is the difference between a player that interests me and one who I don't care to hear. Any "blues" or "blues-ish" gtr playing has got to be relaxed in the time or it upsets my intestinal nervousness.

 

[Bankston]

Stevie is among the all-time greats when it comes to feel and timing.

I've never noticed Bonamassa rushing the beat, but I'll listen for it next time.

 

[bluesmain]

Both great players, tough to compare, one of my guitar mentors told me "you have to do it first or very different". I think they both have done just that. I wish Joe the best of success, he has a good ball rolling right now.

 

[Aran]

I like them both but I would have to say, and pardon me Joe, but Stevie was a more dynamic player. He also seems so damned non-celeb for who he was. Interview after interview he was always an absolute gentleman.

But I do dig Joe's tone a bit more, just a bit.

Now for comparison with Fat Tone players like Joe I'd even have to rate Sonny Landreth better. I totally dig Sonny's tone!

 

[just_one_more]

I know timing and be learned and created, but some people just to seem to naturally have a laid back stretch to everything they play. SRV seems to be on of those. It could all be learned and contrived, but if it is he is even better then I already think. John Bonham was another that has that feel.

 

[Franklin]

I always felt Stevie played around the beat, where Joe was always in the same place. I don't know if he's ahead, behind or right on the beat (don't remember) but I do remember thinking Joe is pretty consistant at least within each song.

But to be honest, I don't have enough of a refined ear (or sense of time) to easily hear a big difference in my playing or others in this regard unless they are really off.

I prefer Stevie's meandering style, it adds tension when he rushes the beat and groove when he's behind it.

Two others styles I like (in this regard) are Derek Trucks and Jimmy Herring. Derek will rush a phrase a half a measure or more going back to the one - often when there is a chord change in a solo. He'll mess w/ the beat but land right on the one. Awesome tension and release. Jimmy will play so far behind the beat sometimes it feels like you are falling off your seat. He'll also play these crazy dissonant arrpeggios, be all around the beat and resolve to a really cool note right one the one. Those guys, like Joe and Stevie, are all monster players regardless how they play with the tempo!!

 

[harmonicator]

Scofield also phrases quite a bit behind the beat, which is why I dig him.

 

[Scott Miller]

As a guy who is guilty of rushing things, I painfully know exactly what you are talking about.

My theory is this: Blues employs an Africanism wherein music is always part of something larger, a community event (same as any folk music, or sacred music). So, the feel of it is one of an invitation to join; that lazy beat is going to suck you right in, you will "get there" before the beat does. Western (rock) music is the opposite: I'm going to play my effing music, and you are going to effing listen, so the feel is more rushed and aggressive.

 

[harmonicator]

My theory is this: Blues employs an Africanism wherein music is always part of something larger, a community event (same as any folk music, or sacred music). So, the feel of it is one of an invitation to join; that lazy beat is going to suck you right in, you will "get there" before the beat does. Western (rock) music is the opposite: I'm going to play my effing music, and you are going to effing listen, so the feel is more rushed and aggressive.

I like that theory.

 

[guitardirky]

no contest. stevie wins hands down.

 

[harmonicator]

I'm a big fan of both players (SRV and JB), but Stevie's playing comes from some kind of deep, deep well that resonates from beyond...almost like a spiritual-connection thing. While killer, Bonamassa strikes me as a player who has worked his damn fingers to the bone getting that good...more of a mechanical rehearsed thing. Of course there is nothing wrong with that. And I'm not saying SRV didn't work damn hard. For me, SRV's playing was a living, breathing entity/force separate from the man himself. Joe B. simply plays the **** outta the guitar. That's the best I can put it....for me, of course.

 

[bigeric]

Joe is not Iconic. Yet. Maybe someday but not now.
Duane
Stevie
Billy
Jeff
Jimi
Jimmy


Joe?

 

[rob13v]

In response to several above me...

Stevie wins what?

Joe cut his teeth with lessons/jamming with Gatton...maybe his timing & feel have something to do with that...

Stevie played the same melodic ideas on every song...he was just as "mechanical" as any other guitarist with "pet licks"

I'm not saying I like one over the other, or that either is "bad," just that they're as different as they are the same...

 

[vintage66]

i agree he's not an icon. he is a prodigy. stevie was a bluesman--buddy guy said that, & he would know. joe gets into blues, but yeah....he rocks out. he likes a bit of fusion.....he is an eric johnson fan. & look at the amp choices. listen to how srv did little wing--sounds like his own, same for voodoo chile. i like jb's rockier stuff. i don't know if joes hands are as large as srv's. i agree with harmonicator about the deep well. hell, srv was from another galaxy with some of the stuff he did. like the movie "men in black".....srv didn't die , he just went home

I think it's the Eric Johnson I hear in his playing that turns me off a bit. Not that they're not both great players, but it's like when I hear Scott Henderson doing his Holdsworth licks-impressive, but I'd rather hear Holdsworth do it (at least his old stuff). Maybe because it's so recognizable that it's distracting. Joe is a great player-I like a lot of his stuff, but I hear more and more of the EJ thing creeping in there.

 

[barbarossa]

He simply tries to hard. It's not naturally there.

I hate to say that, because I don't want to offend. But... it's just not there.

 

[tone4days]

interesting

i think i have that same problem (rushing / getting on top of the beat instead of letting the beat rag a bit) from time to time ... doesnt help that my band's rhythm section has highly irregular time and little to no true grooving pocket .. but i still need to be better at it ... and yeah, its cus i am not a natural and working too hard at it ... comes from being an amateur that aspires to being better than my abilities really are

that said, joe b's got serious skills and i enjoy his playing

 

[Uncle_Salty]

listen to how srv did little wing--sounds like his own, same for voodoo chile.

I'm a huge fan of SRV but, IMVHO, the Hendrix covers point up Stevie's own time deficiencies in relation to Jimi. He's a bit too straight and leaden where Hendrix swings more.