• The Gear Page Apparel & Merch Shop is Open!

    Based on member demand, The Gear Page is pleased to announce that our Apparel Merch Shop is now open. The shop’s link is in the blue Navigation bar (on the right side), “Shop,” with t-shirts, hats, neck buffs, and stickers to start. Here’s the direct link: www.thegearpageshop.com

    You’ll find exclusive high-quality apparel and merchandise; all items are ethical, sustainably produced, and we will be continuously sourcing and adding new choices. 

    We can ship internationally. All shipping is at cost.


TS312 & Headrush FRFR Anyone?

MixMinisterMike

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,843
Now that it's been established that the Headrush FRFR is not the Alto TS212 (looks like it's the TS312), has anyone actually had time on either one?
DJ & non-guitar reviews seem to be very positive of the TS3 line.
 

rd2rk

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
674
I got one of the first from Sweetwater. I'll start by saying that it sounds VERY good with my Helix, for both guitar and bass. MUCH better than the TS210 that it replaces.

Everybody wonders what's the difference between (now that the TS212 diff is resolved) the HR FRFR-112 and the TS312. I asked support at InMusic (parent of both companies). Their response was that the ONLY difference is that the FRFR-112 doesn't have a built in preamp for direct mic connection.

In other words, the TS312 is NOT FRFR (voiced for PA/DJ use), but the removal of the preamp makes it so?

As of this post I'm waiting to hear back that their support person had it straight.

Let me say again - it sounds VERY GOOD! I can't compare it to the pricier solutions, but for $300, IMO, it's a steal!
 

MixMinisterMike

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,843
I picked up a TS 312 at $250. I have a K10, DXR10, and EV ELX112s. I wanted a lighter 12 that I could use for both Bass and Guitar. I figured at $250 it's hard to go wrong. I was right.. I like it.
 

Sascha Franck

Senior Member
Messages
5,729
I picked up a TS 312 at $250. I have a K10, DXR10, and EV ELX112s. I wanted a lighter 12 that I could use for both Bass and Guitar. I figured at $250 it's hard to go wrong. I was right.. I like it.
So, how does the Alto compare to the DXR10 (which I am very familiar with)? I'm especially interested in the midrange "response" (in lack of better words), which I think is absolutely crucial for modeler use. For me, the DXR (and also its little sister, the DBR10) are almost too balanced, even in monitoring mode, so I usually have to kick in some mids using a monitoring-only EQ.
 

MixMinisterMike

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,843
So, how does the Alto compare to the DXR10 (which I am very familiar with)? I'm especially interested in the midrange "response" (in lack of better words), which I think is absolutely crucial for modeler use. For me, the DXR (and also its little sister, the DBR10) are almost too balanced, even in monitoring mode, so I usually have to kick in some mids using a monitoring-only EQ.
I'll try to A/B them but it probably won't be until next week. I've got two bands playing Saturday night and it's Mother's Day where i live on Sunday.
Most of my 1:1 time has been playing my bass through my Axe-III and there it's no contest the TS312 far better than the DXR10/QSC10s - but that's not really fair right - 10s vs 12s, larger case, more watts?
Last night I used it as my FRFR for my Axe-III for guitar. I haven't had time to EQ for stage volume and I was not satisfied with the highs. Again, that's not really fair right? I was only running a 6.6k high cut on my amp block.
 

Sascha Franck

Senior Member
Messages
5,729
Thanks so far.
Fwiw, I am perfectly fine using a dedicated monitoring EQ. But I like some initial "mid punch" so to say. The old RCF (not built anymore and really heavy...) had that in spades, no idea what it exactly did differently than the DXR/DBR, it was just offering more punch in the guitar-critical midrange, which I really loved (unfortunately my mate that I borrowed it from stil doesn't want to sell one of his 6(!) to me).
 

godoy.rafa

Member
Messages
187
I got one of the first from Sweetwater. I'll start by saying that it sounds VERY good with my Helix, for both guitar and bass. MUCH better than the TS210 that it replaces.
Can you give me some more detail on why did you feel it is much better than TS210? I have the 210 and want to know if is it worth the trouble of selling it to buy the new one. Thanks!
 

Sascha Franck

Senior Member
Messages
5,729
Can you give me some more detail on why did you feel it is much better than TS210? I have the 210 and want to know if is it worth the trouble of selling it to buy the new one. Thanks!
I'd be interested in that, too. Tried the TS210 at my place for 2 days and went for a DBR10 (after A/Bing both the DBR and DXR - which IMO sounded almost identical, just that the DBR fan was inaudible all the time whereas the DXR one wasn't).
 

Sascha Franck

Senior Member
Messages
5,729
Fwiw, I just ordered the Alto TS310, basically the small sibling of the 312 (and hence the Headrush labeled thing, which is in fact identical). It's basically planned to be used as a monitor for other things (acoustic trio stuff), but it might as well end up as another modeler monitoring option. Should arrive tomorrow and I'll happily report back, should be pretty similar (apart from a little less low end maybe).
 

rd2rk

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
674
I got one of the first from Sweetwater. I'll start by saying that it sounds VERY good with my Helix, for both guitar and bass. MUCH better than the TS210 that it replaces.

Everybody wonders what's the difference between (now that the TS212 diff is resolved) the HR FRFR-112 and the TS312. I asked support at InMusic (parent of both companies). Their response was that the ONLY difference is that the FRFR-112 doesn't have a built in preamp for direct mic connection.

In other words, the TS312 is NOT FRFR (voiced for PA/DJ use), but the removal of the preamp makes it so?

As of this post I'm waiting to hear back that their support person had it straight.

Let me say again - it sounds VERY GOOD! I can't compare it to the pricier solutions, but for $300, IMO, it's a steal!
Below is the conversation that I had with Headrush/Inmusicbrands Support concerning the differences between the Headrush FRFR-112 and the Alto TS312. If, at some points, I seemed to be abrasive, and that bothers you, sorry 'bout that! I don't like being jerked around.

Up front I would like to say that my FRFR-112, which replaced an AltoTS210, sounds REALLY GOOD!

YMMV, Caveat Emptor.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ME: 4/30/2018
I bought one of the first that Sweetwater received, for use with my Line6 Helix. As an active member of the L6 Helix forum, the question has arisen - What is the difference between the FRFR-112 and the new Alto TS312 (other than the logo)? Since Alto has not made the specs available to their dealers OR on their website.

HRS (Head Rush Support): 5/3/2018
Thank you for reaching out to us. I appreciate the opportunity to assist you!
The FRFR 12 is a full range speaker, so this will allow backing tracks to come through as well. it has the power and frequency range to handle such a task.
- full range/ flat freq response
- ideal for monitoring
If you have additional questions or concerns, or if the information we provided today does not help completely resolve your inquiry, please let me know!

ME: 5/3/2018
Thank you for your reply.
Please answer the question, which was:
"As an active member of the L6 Helix forum, the question has arisen - What is the difference between the FRFR-112 and the new Alto TS312 (other than the logo)?"
I know what FRFR means, that's WHY I bought the FRFR-112.
Note the word "difference", which is the essence of the question.

HRS (Head Rush Support): 5/3 2018
Hello,
As mention in my previous email, The FRFR 112 is a full range/ flat freq response, ideal for monitoring and does not have any preamp built inside for microphone usage compare to the TS series from alto professional. That would be the difference between the two items.
Thank you for the opportunity to assist! Please let me know if I can be of further assistance!
Best Regards,

ME: 5/4/2018
Sorry if it seems like I'm being obtuse or combative, BUT....
If the lack of a mic preamp is the ONLY difference, imparts no special tonal advantage, and both units are the same price, then other than the free advertising from the giant logo, I wonder what's the point of the Headrush FRFR-112? Being the same company, you certainly knew that the TS312 was on the way. Seems like a good way to give the Headrush brand a negative image, selling a lesser device for the same price?
OR.... is there actually a voicing difference that you, personally, are unaware of? If there's someone there with a better explanation of what's going on here, you really should get them involved, because I'm 5 minutes away from returning this to Sweetwater and posting my experience on every music and guitar forum of which I'm a member (which is every one that matters). What gives?

HRS: 5/7/2018
Hello,
Completely understand, I have CC’d in this message one of my senior technician in the department, (name redacted to protect the guilty), he will gladly be able to further assist with your question.
Thank you for the opportunity to assist! Please let me know if I can be of further assistance!
Best Regards,

HRS: 5/9/2018 Senior Technician
Hi EJ,
Thank you for contacting me I’m glad to assist!
The biggest differences between the TS3 series speakers and the FRFR 112 will be the flat response for a much cleaner guitar tone. Connecting a guitar to the TS3 speakers will give you an EQ curve that may be undesirable.
Let me know if you have any questions!

ME: 5/9/2018
Thanks for responding. Here is what we're all wondering.
Below is from the "Features and Specs":
Features
1-Specially-voiced 12-inch woofer and high-frequency compression driver deliver a precise, full response across the entire frequency range without any artificial coloration
2-2000 watts of peak power delivers clarity, punch and enough headroom for any venue
3-(2) XLR/TRS 1/4-inch combo inputs with independent volume controls and clip indicator
4-Contour EQ switch helps you cut through muddy-sounding stage mixes
5-Ground-Lift switch eliminates unwanted noise at venues with grounding issues
6-6LR output sends your mix to the front of house or links additional FRFR-112 cabinets
7-Lightweight and flexible tilt-back cabinet design that can also be pole-mounted
Questions:
1- This seems to indicate that the speaker (the most important part of guitar tone) is NOT the same as the TS312, despite the specs being identical. YES or NO?
4- On the TS series, this is a typical boost lows and highs to compensate the Fletcher Munson curve and accentuate the "DJ" frequencies. "Cutting through the mix", on guitar, is usually accomplished by boosting the mids. Does this switch do the former or the latter? OR?
How much of the "flat response" is accomplished by the "Specially-voiced 12-inch woofer and high-frequency compression driver", and how much is the result of eliminating the PA/DJ tuned mic preamp? Is the FRFR-112 really just a function impaired TS312?
These questions are important to the modeling community because many are saying "Just get the TS312, it's the same thing." Inquiring minds want to know, what, exactly, IS the difference, or is it all just marketing hype?
Again, I'm not being combative, I really LIKE the way my FRFR-112 sounds. But as the saying goes, "The devil is in the details".

ME: 5/17/2018
So, I'm led to assume, from your lack of further response, that the ONLY difference between the FRFR-112 and the TS312 is the lack of mic preamps in the FRFR-112. That the speaker system is exactly the same, the contour switch is the same boost lows/highs, and there are no other differences (other than the grill)?
Speak now, as this conversation WILL be posted on the modeling forums!

HRS: 5/17/2018 Senior Technician
Hi EJ,
Thank you for contacting me I’m glad to assist!
Sorry for the delay in response. As mentioned before, the major differences between the two speakers will be the mic preamps and the response curve
Let me know if you have any questions!

ME: 5/17/2018
"... the major differences between the two speakers will be the mic preamps and the response curve"
Just so that I'm sure that I understand you correctly, the difference in the response curve is therefore the result of the absence of mic preamps. Yes?

HRS: 5/17/2018 Senior Tecnician
Hi EJ,
Thank you for contacting me I’m glad to assist!
The result for the absence of a mic preamp is due to the FRFR being a guitar monitor, so there was not a need to include mic pres
Let me know if you have any questions!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Draw your own conclusions.
 

JiveTurkey

Trumpets and Tants
Silver Supporting Member
Messages
20,071
Below is the conversation that I had with Headrush/Inmusicbrands Support concerning the differences between the Headrush FRFR-112 and the Alto TS312. If, at some points, I seemed to be abrasive, and that bothers you, sorry 'bout that! I don't like being jerked around.

Up front I would like to say that my FRFR-112, which replaced an AltoTS210, sounds REALLY GOOD!

YMMV, Caveat Emptor.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ME: 4/30/2018
I bought one of the first that Sweetwater received, for use with my Line6 Helix. As an active member of the L6 Helix forum, the question has arisen - What is the difference between the FRFR-112 and the new Alto TS312 (other than the logo)? Since Alto has not made the specs available to their dealers OR on their website.

HRS (Head Rush Support): 5/3/2018
Thank you for reaching out to us. I appreciate the opportunity to assist you!
The FRFR 12 is a full range speaker, so this will allow backing tracks to come through as well. it has the power and frequency range to handle such a task.
- full range/ flat freq response
- ideal for monitoring
If you have additional questions or concerns, or if the information we provided today does not help completely resolve your inquiry, please let me know!

ME: 5/3/2018
Thank you for your reply.
Please answer the question, which was:
"As an active member of the L6 Helix forum, the question has arisen - What is the difference between the FRFR-112 and the new Alto TS312 (other than the logo)?"
I know what FRFR means, that's WHY I bought the FRFR-112.
Note the word "difference", which is the essence of the question.

HRS (Head Rush Support): 5/3 2018
Hello,
As mention in my previous email, The FRFR 112 is a full range/ flat freq response, ideal for monitoring and does not have any preamp built inside for microphone usage compare to the TS series from alto professional. That would be the difference between the two items.
Thank you for the opportunity to assist! Please let me know if I can be of further assistance!
Best Regards,

ME: 5/4/2018
Sorry if it seems like I'm being obtuse or combative, BUT....
If the lack of a mic preamp is the ONLY difference, imparts no special tonal advantage, and both units are the same price, then other than the free advertising from the giant logo, I wonder what's the point of the Headrush FRFR-112? Being the same company, you certainly knew that the TS312 was on the way. Seems like a good way to give the Headrush brand a negative image, selling a lesser device for the same price?
OR.... is there actually a voicing difference that you, personally, are unaware of? If there's someone there with a better explanation of what's going on here, you really should get them involved, because I'm 5 minutes away from returning this to Sweetwater and posting my experience on every music and guitar forum of which I'm a member (which is every one that matters). What gives?

HRS: 5/7/2018
Hello,
Completely understand, I have CC’d in this message one of my senior technician in the department, (name redacted to protect the guilty), he will gladly be able to further assist with your question.
Thank you for the opportunity to assist! Please let me know if I can be of further assistance!
Best Regards,

HRS: 5/9/2018 Senior Technician
Hi EJ,
Thank you for contacting me I’m glad to assist!
The biggest differences between the TS3 series speakers and the FRFR 112 will be the flat response for a much cleaner guitar tone. Connecting a guitar to the TS3 speakers will give you an EQ curve that may be undesirable.
Let me know if you have any questions!

ME: 5/9/2018
Thanks for responding. Here is what we're all wondering.
Below is from the "Features and Specs":
Features
1-Specially-voiced 12-inch woofer and high-frequency compression driver deliver a precise, full response across the entire frequency range without any artificial coloration
2-2000 watts of peak power delivers clarity, punch and enough headroom for any venue
3-(2) XLR/TRS 1/4-inch combo inputs with independent volume controls and clip indicator
4-Contour EQ switch helps you cut through muddy-sounding stage mixes
5-Ground-Lift switch eliminates unwanted noise at venues with grounding issues
6-6LR output sends your mix to the front of house or links additional FRFR-112 cabinets
7-Lightweight and flexible tilt-back cabinet design that can also be pole-mounted
Questions:
1- This seems to indicate that the speaker (the most important part of guitar tone) is NOT the same as the TS312, despite the specs being identical. YES or NO?
4- On the TS series, this is a typical boost lows and highs to compensate the Fletcher Munson curve and accentuate the "DJ" frequencies. "Cutting through the mix", on guitar, is usually accomplished by boosting the mids. Does this switch do the former or the latter? OR?
How much of the "flat response" is accomplished by the "Specially-voiced 12-inch woofer and high-frequency compression driver", and how much is the result of eliminating the PA/DJ tuned mic preamp? Is the FRFR-112 really just a function impaired TS312?
These questions are important to the modeling community because many are saying "Just get the TS312, it's the same thing." Inquiring minds want to know, what, exactly, IS the difference, or is it all just marketing hype?
Again, I'm not being combative, I really LIKE the way my FRFR-112 sounds. But as the saying goes, "The devil is in the details".

ME: 5/17/2018
So, I'm led to assume, from your lack of further response, that the ONLY difference between the FRFR-112 and the TS312 is the lack of mic preamps in the FRFR-112. That the speaker system is exactly the same, the contour switch is the same boost lows/highs, and there are no other differences (other than the grill)?
Speak now, as this conversation WILL be posted on the modeling forums!

HRS: 5/17/2018 Senior Technician
Hi EJ,
Thank you for contacting me I’m glad to assist!
Sorry for the delay in response. As mentioned before, the major differences between the two speakers will be the mic preamps and the response curve
Let me know if you have any questions!

ME: 5/17/2018
"... the major differences between the two speakers will be the mic preamps and the response curve"
Just so that I'm sure that I understand you correctly, the difference in the response curve is therefore the result of the absence of mic preamps. Yes?

HRS: 5/17/2018 Senior Tecnician
Hi EJ,
Thank you for contacting me I’m glad to assist!
The result for the absence of a mic preamp is due to the FRFR being a guitar monitor, so there was not a need to include mic pres
Let me know if you have any questions!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Draw your own conclusions.
The conclusion I have drawn is if I have to ask that many questions on a piece of gear to justify the idea of me buying it; I'll find another piece of gear.
 

Unnecessary

Senior Member
Messages
2,671
It's almost like they have no idea what you're talking about...
How hard would it be to say. "Yes, the FRFR-112 uses a slightly different woofer." or something instead of just giving the same non-answer over and over again. This is probably a good indicator as to why the HR isn't seeing much love as far as firmware stuff goes, too. Yeesh.
 

Sascha Franck

Senior Member
Messages
5,729
That was quite enlightning (and entertaining, sort of...), @rd2rk, thanks!
Guess they're just making things up. If the speaker was in fact different and better suited for guitar purposes, they would've clearly said so - I mean, it'd be for their advance.

Still kinda awaiting the TS310 - I'm not expecting it to be any better than the DBR10 I also have, but you never know. On paper the barebone specs even kinda look better (less setting options, though, but that's irrelevant in my case).
 

rd2rk

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
674
The conclusion I have drawn is if I have to ask that many questions on a piece of gear to justify the idea of me buying it; I'll find another piece of gear.
The good news is that:
1) You DON'T have to ask, I already did it for you, and posted the answer, straight from the horses mouth!

2) IMHO, the FRFR-112 sounds REALLY GOOD with my Helix! For $300, you could do worse.

Also, I only asked ONE question - "What's the difference between the FRFR-112 and the TS312?". It was their refusal to give a straight answer, and my desire to give them every chance to do so, that caused the conversation to drag out. We now KNOW, beyond rumor or doubt, that the two speakers (FRFR-112/TS312) are NOT the same, and EXACTLY to what extent they are different.

TO BE CLEAR - the difference is that without the preamp (which apparently colors the sound), the FRFR-112 is closer to FRFR than the TS312. For a modeler get the FRFR-112. For PA/DJ use get the TS312.
 

JiveTurkey

Trumpets and Tants
Silver Supporting Member
Messages
20,071
The good news is that:
1) You DON'T have to ask, I already did it for you, and posted the answer, straight from the horses mouth!

2) IMHO, the FRFR-112 sounds REALLY GOOD with my Helix! For $300, you could do worse.

Also, I only asked ONE question - "What's the difference between the FRFR-112 and the TS312?". It was their refusal to give a straight answer, and my desire to give them every chance to do so, that caused the conversation to drag out. We now KNOW, beyond rumor or doubt, that the two speakers (FRFR-112/TS312) are NOT the same, and EXACTLY to what extent they are different.

TO BE CLEAR - the difference is that without the preamp (which apparently colors the sound), the FRFR-112 is closer to FRFR than the TS312. For a modeler get the FRFR-112. For PA/DJ use get the TS312.
My point was I wouldn't get either :D
 

Sascha Franck

Senior Member
Messages
5,729
Alright, just tried the TS310 and A/B-ed it with my DBR10.

I'd say it's sort of on par in a way. There's some tonal differences though:
- The TS has a bit more lows.
- The DBR has a bit more of those "vocal" mids around 500Hz.
- So far it seems as if the TS is a little less prone to getting shrill in the higher registers.

The first two points would possibly be against the TS when used with a modeler, at least given my experience, because with FRFR monitors, there's quite a risk that things get boomy and regarding the mids, these are probably among those you might want to dial in, so any lack of them should theoretically not be a good thing.
In addition, the DBR has a monitor mode, which I find to be useful (makes it cut through a bit more) and a 2 position lowcut, which is immensely helpful when using it as a monitor (unless it's for bass). The TS only offers flat and some sort of loudness mode - the latter certainly being exactly what you don't want for guitars.
So, given all that it'd be just logical to prefer the DBR for guitar modeling duties.
But hold on.

I also tried dialing in those frequencies that I know I will usually dial in on pretty much all gigs (just on my monitoring EQ, leaving the FOH feed untouched). It's usually some mids, ranging somewhere between that mentioned vocal thing and some more "bity" stuff (which might be in full effect around 2-3kHz), sometimes even both. And here it seems as if the TS is taking these better than the DBR - for reasons unknown to yours truly. And given that I always have one or the other option for monitor-only EQing with me, the missing low cut and monitor setting isn't an issue anymore, either.

Fwiw, as I bought this as an additional speaker for some acoustic trio, most likely to be used as a mixture between monitor and "FOH" (not really FOH-ish because we're playing quite small venues with that trio, such as cafés), I obviously checked with my nylon, too. Here I defenitely prefer the TS (which is why I will likely keep it in any case), there's some of those nasty piezo high mids that are really tough to rid of, and the TS so far seems to make that a bit easier.

Some more things:
The TS is a bit larger - but not so much it would really be a deciding factor. It's also a bit heavier. But at around 1kg it's again not even remotely important (and probably even an advance for a slight bit of additional tightness). The handles on the sides of the TS are way better to deal with than that top "grip" of the DBR.
The TS has some acoustic foam behind the grille. That defenitely is a good thing because small amounts of whatever beers or coffees you might spill around when using it tilted back as a monitor won't do any harm.
The TS can be tilted to either side - not all that relevant but some golden eared folks might prefer to have the woofer and tweeter the other way around.
The DBR has a stereo cinch input, apparently summing a stereo signal to mono. Might come in handy here and there (if you run out of mixer channels and want to route some MP3s into it during breaks).
The TS has a ground lift on its DI out. That might become handy (even if I usually not use the through functions of any monitors).
There's a tiny bit more of hiss coming out of the TS (with nothing connected). But for my use cases it's completely irrelevant, after all, these are no studio monitors.
The 2000W of the TS have to be considered a joke. It's not noticeably louder than the DBR (just a tiny bit). But then, the 700W of the DBR are a joke already, too. You would expect earth shattering volumes from either - but I had an old RCF A300 here for quite a while, and regarding volume, that guy would mop the floor with either of the two (but it's twice as heavy).

Finally, I'm quite happy with this thing and will almost certainly keep it. Next weekend is my next non-IEM electric gig (and an acoustic one, too) and I'll just use the TS instead of the DBR. Until then I'll just keep it clean and unscratched.
Oh, and I'm happy I didn't order the 312. I'm sure it'd only add to the low end and that's what I'm cutting anyway.
 

Sascha Franck

Senior Member
Messages
5,729
Oh, fwiw, I forgot to add this: I had a TS210 here as well a while ago (and also compared it to the DBR, so I have a decent point of reference). A huge difference. I would've never gotten the 210 (well, I didn't buy it, so...) and I could never recommend it, either.
 

Ringleader42

Member
Messages
1,387
TO BE CLEAR - the difference is that without the preamp (which apparently colors the sound), the FRFR-112 is closer to FRFR than the TS312. For a modeler get the FRFR-112. For PA/DJ use get the TS312.
Sound to me that the DSP tuning is being overlooked here. When they say response curve I’m betting there is a different default EQ curve programmed into the DSP, the Headrush version being the flatter of the two.
 




Top