tube rectifier OR ss rectifier/master volume OR no master volume?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by takis, Dec 22, 2005.


  1. takis

    takis Member

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    look how is the story...

    i want to buy one amp and im thinking some amps like:
    1)GERMINO CLUB 40
    2)ROCCAFORTE CUSTOM 40
    3)FUCHS
    4)Skrydstrup

    i m confused because some of them have master volume and some not..i want to ask which is the differences at the sound and if its "bad" to have master volume compared with an amp without master volume?
    will i have any advantages with a master volume to my amp?there is any difference at how the pedals will sound if there is a master volumeor not?(silly question..?)

    i also want to tell me the differences at the sound between an amp that has tube rectifier compared with an amp that has ss rectifier.its "better" to have a tube rectifier because its...tube?(another silly question..?)

    please help me because i m confused and the money that i ll spend are.. too much..
    thanks!!
    takis;)
     
  2. rockstah

    rockstah Member

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    im sure you will get many replies and rather than me tell you whats best to my ears, guitars and hands it will be up to you. - there are so many variables in this the best advice i could give is go and play them all. youll know what you like
     
  3. takis

    takis Member

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    thank you very much for your help!
     
  4. bscepter

    bscepter Member

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    I personally don't like MV amps because I like power tube distortion, but that's just me. The rectifier is more a low/high power issue, I think.
     
  5. rockstah

    rockstah Member

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    tube rectifier is a feel thing.. it feels and responds different than solid state but again - one needs to play one with their guitar, their ear and their hands - one may have a favorite color but that doesnt mean one color is better than the other
     
  6. riffmeister

    riffmeister Gold Supporting Member

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    I have played great sounding amps that have tube rectifiers, that have SS rectifiers, that have master volumes, and that don't have master volumes.

    So it really depends on the requirements and ears of the user.

    If you want overdriven sounds at a variety of volume levels, the MV does come in pretty handy. An attenuator would be required for this on a non-MV amp.
     
  7. rockstah

    rockstah Member

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    in my opinion the master volume sucks tone if you are looking for power tube distortion - nothing substitues cranking it up some believe non master with a attentuator will get you closer than a master volume but again so many variables one has to go and play with their guitar ears and hands to know what they like
     
  8. rockstah

    rockstah Member

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    yeah but now we can start a pissing match ;)- have you tried either of those amps without a master volume? i was talking more along the lines of taking amp that has none and putting one in and comparing.. but again so many variables here :)
     
  9. rockstah

    rockstah Member

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    interesting food for thought there - thanks for the post! :)
     
  10. takis

    takis Member

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    thanks for the post splatt!:) :RoCkIn
     
  11. hasserl

    hasserl Member

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    I do a lot of MV installations, for other people as well as on most all my amps. One thing about a good MV, if you dime it the amp acts/sounds like it isn't there. So you can have it both ways. IMO it adds a lot of versatility to an amp, allowing you to use one in situations where it would be useless without the MV. If you want the sound of the amp without the MV, fine, just dime it and get what you want.

    But understand that what many people think of as "power tube" distortion is actually preamp & phase inverter distortion. Besides the 18 watt Marshall there aren't a lot of amps that you can actually drive the power tubes into distortion. There just isn't enough voltage swing to do it. The power tubes operate rather cleanly in most cases, and it is the phase inverter clipping that is what you hear and think is power tube distortion.

    A post phase inverter MV allows you to maintain much of that tone while reducing the overall volume. It does alter the tone, no arguement, but IMO it does a good job of maintaining the same tone. You may disagree, and that's okay. Fortunately we don't have to agree on everything.

    Attenuators are cool too, if that's your bag. I've used both, sometimes at the same time. But it is another thing to haul around and dick with. Sometimes I just don't want to do that, and with a good MV I really don't need to.
     
  12. Red Planet

    Red Planet Member

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    Dont know whats up with this new software but every time I post I have to Log In.

    Try the Roccaforte. He has the end all be all MV M Amp.
     
  13. Leonc

    Leonc Wild Gear Hearder Gold Supporting Member

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    My answer to the two questions is YES!

    I like them all when done "right" (to me at least). It's very hard to make meaningful sweeping generalizations about these design choices.
     
  14. takis

    takis Member

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    roccaforte custom 40 is in my mind...:dude :dude
     
  15. drbob1

    drbob1 Silver Supporting Member

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    The amps that you list at the start cover quite a bit of ground, so I'm not sure how you decided on the list? I'm also assuming that you wouldn't have asked the question if you could try them all out ahead of time? So, in a nutshell:
    SS vs Tube Rectifier-affects the "Sag", or feel of the amp when you hit it hard. Tube rectified amps that are relatively low gain (JTM45, Fender Tweed, Brown and smaller BF) tend to sound sweet and vocal. Higher gain amps (or pushing a low gain amp hard with a pedal) can sound mushy, with the attack of the note sort of lost because the power supply can't keep up. So, in general, I'd go with tube for low gain, SS for high.

    MV vs Not-There're good MV (Matchless, Hiwatt, Rocca, VHT) and not so good MV (Mesa?). Basically the best come after the PI in the circuit (IMHO) because they allow the preamp to overdrive the PI, which seems to get you at least 1/2 way to "power tube crunch". I'd draw the same basic distinction as with rectifiers, a lower gain amp is great without MV, high gain (which comes mostly from the preamp like modern Marshalls, all Mesas, lots of the VHT offerings, Engl...) need a MV to work properly.

    The other problem with low gain amps with no MV is that they tend to have a narrower useful volume range-in other words you need a couple of BF Fenders to play different sized rooms and keep the same amount of juiciness. So:
    High gain: MV, SS
    Traditional country/clean/blues: NMV, SS or tube
    Maximum flexibility: MV, SS or tube
     
  16. takis

    takis Member

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    drbob1 thanks very much!nice post!:AOK
     
  17. samtheman

    samtheman Member

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    I have Germino LoVo 55 with PPIMV and I love it :jo

    -sam
     
  18. Guinness Lad

    Guinness Lad Silver Supporting Member

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    A couple things:

    Not all tube rectifier amps have sag, actually using a GZ34 will produce little if no sag. If you really want to see what sag is, grab a Tweed deluxe with a 5y3, your questions will be answered.

    Good master volume amps are more usful then non master amps. If will have more control from room to room and you won't have to crank it so loud for that sweet spot that your killing people. I use a Guytron which is as good as any non master amp I have played, I'm sure Fuchs, Bogner etc... also make great master volume amps as well.

    Diode rectifiers should be more reliable, one less tube to break. I have one rectifer amp and one diode amp and the diference in the amps is hardly due to what type of recitifier is in it.
     
  19. abergdahl

    abergdahl Member

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    Those are VERY differnt amps, the Germino is a classic MArshall style design, the Rocca is also a taeon Marshall, Fuchs and Skrydstrup are more Dumble inspiried amps that have VERY little in common with Germino and Roccaforte.
    What type of tone are you looking for?? Of these mentioned above i would chose the Skrydstrup, but if i were looking for traditional 60/70's blues rock sound og Clapton, page, Yuong brothers the Germino or Roccaforte would be the choice, Scott Lerner sound Fuchs. One of the most flexible and good sounding amps in the world with a high class refined sound, claen to dirty two amazing channels - Skrydstrup.
     

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