Tuner debate

Discussion in 'Effects, Pedals, Strings & Things' started by Moe45673, Jan 16, 2006.


  1. Moe45673

    Moe45673 Member

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  2. Lution

    Lution Member

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    you tell him, MOE!

    Proud SS user here. Won't go back to other tuners. :dude
     
  3. shallbe

    shallbe Deputy Plankspanker Gold Supporting Member

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    What do you mean, you don't "mind" people that "think" their guitars are in tune after using a TU2? Have you heard all "their" guitars and judged for yourself? What if their guitar really was in tune?

    Claiming someone's guitar isn't in tune when you haven't heard it is like dissing a product you have not used or tried---hypocritical to say the least. Stop preaching and just be happy for yourself without trying to tell everyone else whether they are in tune.

    And no, I don't use a Strobostomp. I've yet to even see one, but I have used a real Strobotuner on many occasions for studio work and look forward to trying the Stomp. In the meantime, I'll somehow make it with my other tuners, my ear and 30 years of playing guitar.
     
  4. aleclee

    aleclee TGP Tech Wrangler Staff Member

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    I can see the headline now: "Opinionated Guitarist Bashes High-End Gear!" If you're in NYC, it might get bumped off the front page by "Cabby Drives Yellow Sedan!" :p

    Maybe I'm getting old but I just don't have the energy to get worked up over every nitwit who declares that people who spend more money on gear than he does is compensating for lack of ability. :rolleyes:
     
  5. Moe45673

    Moe45673 Member

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    yeah, alec, I think I'll follow in your footsteps.

    I got a pm from Trodden stating how I'm an idiot, and he actually did use one in a store once under the expert supervision of the manager, so ha. He also made moronic assumptions such as "Yes, I am insulting your musical integrity because only someone who is more worried about their sweet tuner than their music would spew out the ******** that you are." He didn't forget to include the mandatory lot of swear words and cyber-spittle used by ignorant morons who fight over the internet.

    I'm done with him and his silly ways.
     
  6. drolling

    drolling Member

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    Just clicked on the link... What's the font size?

    Like about 2 points, maybe? I can't read that...

    ...And there's your answer Moe. The regulars over there must be very young to have such good eyesight..
     
  7. Moe45673

    Moe45673 Member

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    Hey man, don't get all defensive. A tu-2 is fine if that's what you're used to, but after using a strobostomp for a few weeks, you'll see what I mean. Nothing else can possibly sound in tune after you get used to that level, but again, it can be just a matter of viewpoint as to what is in tune.

    It's like myself, for example. I love the tone I get from my Marshall AVT's clean channel in conjunction with my pedals (especially my eq). Because of this, I don't feel I need to make the upgrade to a tube amp. Not to mention I get compliments all the time from soundguys and other musicians on my tone, but I digress. However, if I ever did decide to shell out for a Twin Reverb or something, I'd probably think "how can I have ever thought i had good tone before?" Same deal with you and the SS.

    just read all the threads about the SS here, and wonder how all the owners of it can have the exact same opinion, bar none.
     
  8. Kaiser

    Kaiser Member

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    just read all the threads about tube amps here, and wonder how we all have the exact same opinion about solid state amps.

    I agree with you, the SS is much, much better, and I'm looking forwrd to it, but, I respect every opinion.

    Some of us drive our Ferraris to work, some of us take the subway, but in the end we all get to work.
     
  9. Scott Peterson

    Scott Peterson Staff Member

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    In the end, I don't care anymore what anyone thinks about me or my gear. I know it works better for me, and in the end that's enough. I'll talk about it, but I don't have the time or energy to debate it.

    I'll also bring up my oldest debate stopper - until you have tried it yourself, you can't have an opinion. Simple as that. The one dude says he did, but from his attitude, well, he has a chip on his shoulder.

    If tone change is the big deal on the thread, they should be introduced into the world of loopers. It'd save a lot of grief for them.

    I do get a kick out of the "well, the SS is okay, but not as good as a rack mounted tuner..." That's a good one. :D
     
  10. shallbe

    shallbe Deputy Plankspanker Gold Supporting Member

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    Well there you go. You've found something that works for you. I'm happy for you. I wouldn't think to tell you another amp would work better for you than a Marshall ATV.
     
  11. Beer

    Beer Member

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    A point that wasn't brought up specifically in the post was being able to tune a guitar "too well" so that one's ears get used to hearing it perfectly in tune. Personally, I would become more picky when it goes even slightly out of tune. In a band I can't possibly stop between every song and tune. (or have my theoretical roadie come out and change my guitar for me) I have to suffer through a little bit of out of tune-ness now and then. Especially with certain guitars that are more prone to some tuning fluctuation than others. (For instance, many Les Pauls' G string is a pain. Bend it more than a step and even if you have the most well lubed and cut nut in the world you still risk some tuning change. Relatively new strings, even stretched ones, same thing.) I had a Buzz Feiten tuned guitar for quite a while and eventually developed a love/hate relationship with it's in-tuneness. Because when it was off, it really pissed me off more. I sold that, not for that reason btw, and haven't really missed the difference.

    OTOH, I'd like the Peterson more for doing intonation and so forth. Also if it were more stable than the TU-2 (which I use, as well as the tuner on the G-major which I find more stable than the TU-2) that would make a much bigger difference to me. The other factor I notice people bringing up was the LED brightness of the TU-2 verses the display on the Peterson. These are all valid points that I think contribute more to the discussion than the point of "how in tune one is as it relates to their musical sensiblity".

    At the same time, many people like to "rock with their cock out" and just bash away with intensity and passion and let tuning fall where it may. I can't fault them for this and in some ways I admire them for it.
     
  12. playon

    playon Supporting Member

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    Well I'm with shallbe on this one. To say that a person can't get his guitar in good tune without a strobostomp is ridiculous. I'm certain they are a fine tool, and a better tuner than a Boss TU-2 -- they no doubt save some time, and they are probably easier to use. I'm also certain people with good ears can tune their guitars perfectly well with another tuner. For me it's a matter of pedal board real estate and price. Once they've been around for awhile and start turning up cheap on ebay, I'll think about getting one.
     
  13. Guinness Lad

    Guinness Lad Silver Supporting Member

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    I have a strobostomp but never use it at practice I look at this way if my guitar is in tune with itself I should then be able to tune to any reference pitch, bass low E, piano A etc... If I can't get my guitar in tune then I either need to clean out my ears or quit playing. My strobostomp works fine every time I've used it.
     
  14. drolling

    drolling Member

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    I dunno, maybe I'm just kookoo, but after working w/strobo for the past few months, my *ear* seems to have improved. I can hear the subtle nuances better & I'm generally finding it easier to tune my guitars, even when I'm playing my acoustic and not even hooked up to the board.

    But man, does that thing suck down batteries, or what? It's got to be one of the hungriest pedals I've ever had to feed. And very, very touchy about its power supply. You can kill one dead with an unregulated adaptor..
     
  15. Matts Tone

    Matts Tone Supporting Member

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    I have used the Strobo Stomp for 1 month now & it's the best tuner I have owned!!!

    BUT in saying that it's the first tuner style pedal I have owned, as in the past I owned the intellitouch which picks up on vibrations & is supposed to be able to feel the pitch, well after using the Strobo Stomp there is no comparison it's alot more useable & less hassle to use.

    The Strobo Stomp gets a big thumbs up from me!!!
     
  16. nashvillesteve

    nashvillesteve Member

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    I am planning on getting a SS for my electric guitar rig, but I am also a classical player. The intonation on a classical is not always so perfect, so maybe I'm best off in that camp just using a tuning fork and using the American Guild of Luthiers' recommended tuning method (google it up, it's a billion times better than the 5th fret harmonic/7th fret harmonic way)... this way seems to get the guitar in tune with itself better, it is better for the guitars temperament (in the tuning sense, although also in a "complex chords ringing out- either greatly or poorly!" sense)...

    Or, should I get a passive pickup to use the classical with the SS (which I could also use to get my Melodica running into the Loop Station's "line/mic" input to play it through my guitar rig... that's about $45 or $50, I think...
     
  17. Moe45673

    Moe45673 Member

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    As I stated, once you have a SS for a while, a tu-2 or dt-10 will bug you because it's not as accurate and you can hear the difference. If you're fine with the tu-2, more power to you.

    As for real estate, the SS is 5" L x 3.875" W x 2.25"
    The TU-2 is 5 1/8" x 2 7/8" x 2 3/8"
    About a difference of an inch in the width
     
  18. Souled Out

    Souled Out Member

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    I am such a spoiled Gear Page snob. I can't even think about playing playing without tuning up with a Strobo. I've used many tuners over the years and nothing finds the sweet spots for me like the Strobostomp.
     
  19. Beer

    Beer Member

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    Another issue I've discussed on other forums is the nature of fret height. Just the fact that frets have a physical height to them means that each of us potentially presses the string down a different amount when fretting. This is a real difference in tuning. Take the extremes to understand what I'm saying. How about a scalloped fretboard ala Yngwe and the hamfisted attack of many OBF's (old blues farts) and you'll find that you can perfectly buzz feitenize, intonate and tune a guitar and the player himself will fret chords that are not in tune with themselves much less an orchestra pit. Another extreme is when the frets get really flat from wear and repeated leveling so that they cannot be crowned. You've probably played these guitars. Usually it's an old beat up les paul when I've encountered them that have basically these really wide, very flat frets. The action can be pretty amazing on them, BUT this has to effect the intonation and compromises all the fret positions relative to the bridge as the point of contact shifts towards the bridge as compared to a higher, well crowned fret. I think a good musician compensates for these differences with ear and touch to get the best sounding results. A very legitamate reason that we need to be able to hear ourselves well to be able to play well.

    Then also consider that even Buzz Feiten's temperment tuning is not the same as that of other instruments like piano's, brass or woodwind. It is a "better" compromise than equal temperment, but it is still a compromise and not technically in-tune. But then, we don't necessarily want to hear everything perfectly in tune. Our ears are used to out of tune and there is a tuning available called "Sweet tuning" which is NOT in tune perfectly but changed ever so slightly to make a more pleasing sound to our ears. Go a step further and consider that dividing "ocataves" and scales into 12 parts is a purely western thing. Other cultures have chosen different divisions and have music that sounds completely foreign and strange to our ears and pretty much out of tune, but the local listeners hear it as being correct because that is what their ears have grown up with and are used to.

    Guitars are not well tuned instruments and many people are so used to that lack of perfect tuning that it's what our ears have come to expect. Deviating from that too much to make it a perfectly tuned instrument becomes something of a pointless exercise. I have a friend who leans more toward punk rock who says "guitars are supposed to sound a little crappy, that's just the way it is". I can relate somewhat to this perspective. They are what they are. Trying to get perfect can be sorta silly really. Especially since MOST of us are not much more than amatuers with a passion but no serious formal training as compared to other professional musicians outside of the guitar world. How many Juliard graduates do you think are on this message board? Not that there's anything wrong with what we do or should our music and passion be diminished by our lack of formal training and the accompanying discipline, but some of us, including me, need to remember what it is we do and who we are and not "pole vault over mouse turds" as my boss is fond of saying, when it comes to miniscule differences.

    Still, I'd rather be in tune all the time if I could help it because being out of tune (especially once you realize it in the middle of a song) sucks.
     
  20. drbob1

    drbob1 Silver Supporting Member

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    How about some anecdotal evidence: local guy, long time player, OK ears-couldn't get his Jap 12 string Fender electric into tune with his tuner. Leant him my VS1 and he had it done in 5 minutes. To me the difference is tracking-I know the pitch envelope of the string isn't stable (starts out sharp when it's plucked, then flattens gradually) and there's nothing that can be done about the compromises that guitar frets introduce into tuning, but at least the Peterson stuff tracks fast enough and stable enough to let me SEE the compromises and deal with them. Of course, I like my real strobe just a little better...
     

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