Tweed Deluxe vs. Tweed Champ...w/1x12 in both

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by jpervin, Feb 23, 2006.


  1. jpervin

    jpervin Supporting Member

    Messages:
    6,630
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2005
    Location:
    Frazer, PA
    Here's a question...

    A tweed Deluxe has (2) 6v6s and (typically) (2) 12AX7s, along with a tube rectifier.
    A tweed or blackface Champ has (1) 6v6, (1) 12AX7 and a tube rectifier.

    How much of a difference would there be in volume and tone if you compared a Deluxe vs. a Champ that did not have an 8" speaker, but a 12" speaker in a Deluxe-size cabinet?

    The reason I ask is I've been considering ordering either a tweed Deluxe chassis kit or a Champ chassis kit. I already have a Deluxe-size cabinet and a Weber 12" Sig alnico speaker.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. jpervin

    jpervin Supporting Member

    Messages:
    6,630
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2005
    Location:
    Frazer, PA
  3. Dave C

    Dave C Gold Supporting Member

    Messages:
    1,359
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2005
    Location:
    Waterford Ct
    I'd go for the deluxe , it's a little more sophisticated circuit , more power , and you already have the right cab for it.
    Dave C
     
  4. BozoTone

    BozoTone Member

    Messages:
    542
    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2005
    Location:
    Nashville, TN.
    Is this a cost or tone consideration?...if it is a matter of tone, I also would vote for the Deluxe even if it is a few $$$ more...I don't think there would be a lot of volume difference in the two, but the Deluxe would have better headroom and sound bit richer.....
    BZT
     
  5. jpervin

    jpervin Supporting Member

    Messages:
    6,630
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2005
    Location:
    Frazer, PA
    This would be a tone consideration, as both the Deluxe kit and the Champ kit I'm considering cost about the same. I'm not necessarily looking for more headroom anyway, since I have a '68 Ampeg Jet that doesn't break up until it's cranked.
    The thing about the Champ kit...this particular kit will take 6V6, 6L6 or EL34 with no rebiasing needed. Plus, it has a master volume control to get some grit at low volumes.
     
  6. phsyconoodler

    phsyconoodler Member

    Messages:
    4,352
    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Location:
    calgary canada
    The champ does not work well with a master volume.It's like adding another volume control.There are not enough gain stages to take advantage of a master.
    They grind nicely and sound great with a 12" speaker.The 5E3 has lots of grind too.Both are nice sounding.the champ with a 6L6 sounds great.
    The 12" speaker adds lots of volume to a champ circuit.If both are priced the same,I'd go for the 5E3 too.
     
  7. fullerplast

    fullerplast Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,793
    Joined:
    May 5, 2003
    If you are going for low volume playing or recording (think Layla), the champ in single ended class A operation with have slightly different breakup characteristics than the deluxe, and it will happen at lower volume. Of course you lose some EQ ability with the champ unless you go with a tweed princeton circuit (champ with tone control). The tweed princeton and deluxe shared the same cabinet for a couple of years also.

    OTOH, if you will be jamming with a drummer, the champ will not keep up; go with the deluxe.
     
  8. jpervin

    jpervin Supporting Member

    Messages:
    6,630
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2005
    Location:
    Frazer, PA
    Nope, won't be jamming with a drummer. If I do, I have other amps for that. If I would ever use this in a band situation, I'd just mic it.

    The Champ kit I'm thinking about getting has a tone control, along with a MV. Go to the link below and scroll down the page about half way until you see the 5F1+ kit. That's the one.

    http://www.allenamps.com/5f2.html
     
  9. Jeff Flowerday

    Jeff Flowerday Member

    Messages:
    606
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2003
    Location:
    Calgary, AB Canada
    If I was to do it again I'd do a Tweed Princeton. Farely efficient 10" speaker and you are set. The 5F1 champ is farely dark and I needed to really tweak the circuit to get it to where I was happy. She is pretty loud in the 10" Princeton cab.
     
  10. funkycam

    funkycam Member

    Messages:
    2,274
    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2005
    Location:
    El Sobrante CA
    Last Thursday I had the chance to try a 5f1 champ & a 5e3 deluxe back to back.
    Both were 1x12 with new jensens, built by Jim Nickelson of Lil Dawg amps.
    While there is a volume difference what was most striking (strat straight into the amp) was the tone & gain difference. The deluxe is real thick, in that milk-shake beano place to my ear whereas the champ is much lower gain, much brighter & crisper.
    Now the deluxe has essentially 2 preamp gain stages & the champ only one, but even if they are set so they both have the same amount of overdrive, the tone is very different.
    Incidentally Jim's amps have a post power section line out so you can slave into a poweramp.
    He had an old organ power amp (6l6s I think)that sounded killer when slaved into it.
    If you like the 5f1 tone better, slaving seems like a very useful way to get the small amp tone at useable (in a live/band setting) volume.
    hth
    Cam
    http://myspace.com/funkycam
     
  11. Jim S

    Jim S Silver Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Messages:
    13,913
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2002
    Location:
    Incline Village, NV (Lake Tahoe )
  12. jpervin

    jpervin Supporting Member

    Messages:
    6,630
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2005
    Location:
    Frazer, PA
    Surprised to see this thread resurrected...

    I ended up building the tweed Deluxe.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  13. Jim S

    Jim S Silver Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Messages:
    13,913
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2002
    Location:
    Incline Village, NV (Lake Tahoe )
    I resurrected thread because I'm trying to decide between a:
    • Tweed Deluxe
    • Champ Tweed
    • Champ Silver/Blackface clone.
    The sound clips of the Victoria 5F1 champ sound fantastic to me.
    I heard the Fender Tweed Deluxe 15w at NAMM it sounded great too. Hence, the bump instead of starting another thread.
     
  14. Trout

    Trout Member

    Messages:
    7,579
    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2006
    Location:
    Illinois/Far West Burbia
    Thats actually not correct.

    If cathode biased tweed amp is biased correctly for a 6V6, The 6L6, and EL34 will not be biased correctly unless it has a bias selection switch to change the bias resistor for each prospective tube..
    The 6L6 and EL34 will work, But they will not be optimally biased. Guys go to great lengths to make sure their fixed bias amps are set correctly and it does affect the tone of the amp even in a cathode biased amp.

    There are not many guys out there who actually get this correct by adding bias resistor switching.

    Trout
     
  15. EataPeach

    EataPeach Member

    Messages:
    2,194
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2006
    Location:
    Westerly,RI
    jpervin-Nice job,how long did it take you? Would you recommend a kit to someone with no build experience? I do have common sense though,usually.....

    I have a L'il Dawg D'lux on the way!! This thread put my anxiety level up a couple notches : )

    Funkycam-can you explain more about the post power out? I'm not sure what the difference is between that and a speaker out. Thanks
     

Share This Page