twin reverb efficiency through Weber CA & MI loaded 4x12

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by chillerthanmost, Feb 15, 2012.

  1. chillerthanmost

    chillerthanmost Member

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    Been searching a lot but keep finding up and down answers to these Weber's volume and sensitivity. In short, I'm looking for as much volume as possible out of my Twin. Will two Weber California's and two Weber Michigan's (ceramic, paper dome) in a sealed 4x12 be efficient enough to give my Twin Reverb it's full 80w (possibly more) potential?

    I would love to fill up my Emperor 4x12 with EV's but I need it to be 4 ohms to run my '73 (blackface spec) Twin Reverb through it (head only now). I was running two Weber 12F150's and they just barely cut through when I had my Twin as a combo. I run it simultaneously with a Sound City B100 pushing a 4x12 on the other side of the drums. The Sound City is drastically louder than the Twin, which is the reason I'm asking this. As far as the speakers, they seem to be exactly what I'm looking for tone wise; transparent, clean, big, etc. I have no doubt I'll like the tone. Since they don't post sensitivity, I'm worried the Twin won't cut it live being that I had to crank it as a combo with what people say are more efficient speakers (12F150) to barely keep up. So I'm looking for the most volume as possible. We play loud and don't mic or go through a PA. Playing a stock Ric 360.

    Should I be concerned about sensitivity and keeping up with my B100 (and rest of the band) with this set of speakers or should I look into a more efficient set of speakers like Eminence Delta Pro / Commonwealth? :huh

    Thanks in advance
     
  2. solitaire

    solitaire Senior Member

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    There is no such thing as full potential, really. It's SPL ratings and headroom all the way. The California is a 97dB speaker according to Weber's plot and not very loud at all. The Michigan is slightly louder.

    If original the Sound City (a rather high headroom amp) if stock would be pushing a quad of Fanes which are known to be explosively aggressive once they see some power. Eminence could be the route for you to go as long as you like the tone of them in that context.
     
  3. pula58

    pula58 Silver Supporting Member

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    In my expereince the Michigan is less efficient than the California (both caramic magnet versions).

    These will not get the most clean volume out of a twin reverb, although they will sound great!


    Eminence Swamp thang would do it, as would JBL E120's or K120's, or D-120's, or D-120F's. Then there are EVM12L's..and so on.

    You must be playing very very loud if two 12F150's in a twin are not loud enough.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2012
  4. chillerthanmost

    chillerthanmost Member

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    I had no idea what the sensitivity on the CA was, so, thank you. 97dB actually isn't too bad. Sure, I'd prefer 100dB but there's not many 16ohm speakers out there with the tone I'm looking for that can give me that. The Sound City has less headroom than the Twin but get's considerably louder. I don't mind the bit of hair/dirt though since I'm doing a clean/dirty stereo rig. I'm going to be running it through four Scumbacks as soon as I get a baffle to hold them in my old Marshall 8x10. Thanks for the reply.

    I've heard the Michigan is a bit less efficient than the California. This concerns me a bit though I've been re-assured by many that they balance each other very well together. I'll take a look at the Swamp Thing though it hasn't come up in a lot of my search for bright, sparkly, uncolored / transparent speakers, which is what I'm looking for. I'd love some JBL's and/or EV's but they are all unfortunately 8 ohms and since I'll be using four, it will not be a match to my Twins 4 ohm output. When I had those two 12F150's I had the Twin on volume 8 and it just barely made it through for practice. We play really (really) loud. Three piece band and no help or support from a PA besides vocals. I can only imagine as a combo it would have a harder time cutting through in an actual live situation. That's why I'm concerned about the CA and MI since they are less efficient than the 12F150's even though I'm looking at getting four speakers (compared to two).


    Thanks for the replies. I hope I get more people to pitch in.
     
  5. chillerthanmost

    chillerthanmost Member

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  6. aflynt

    aflynt Member

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    In my experience there's nothing as loud and clean as an EV. I'd get 4 of them and a multi-tap output transformer for the Twin.

    -Aaron

    P.S. - I'd buy a good set of earplugs if you haven't already. :)
     
  7. 335guy

    335guy Member

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    I had an all original '65 Twin that came with Altec 12's. I swapped them for two EV SRO's when some idiot I let use my amp blew up the Altecs. Those EV's never complained and that amp was LOUD and HEAVY. I had to replace the baffle with 3/4" plywood because those SRO's were so heavy.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. chillerthanmost

    chillerthanmost Member

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    Is this multi-tap output transformer a product or actually replacing the transformer? I definitely would love to use a quad of EV's.
     
  9. aflynt

    aflynt Member

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    It's both. :)

    Here's one:

    http://www.classictone.net/40-18013.html

    You'd need a tech to install it and rebias too.

    -Aaron
     
  10. cratz2

    cratz2 Member

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    I've got to ask... how big are the venues you are playing that don't have a PA you can mic through?

    The main venue I have experience with that doesn't allow the guitarist to mic up holds about 150 people. I've seen punk, metal and surf bands play there several times. A lot of the metal and punk bands use a 1x12 combo or a head with a 2x12 cab... and most of them, I've never turn all the way up.

    Seriously... are you playing like 2,000 seat venues that don't have a PA?

    Back to the topic though, I used to have a single 15" Michigan and it had TREMENDOUS bottom end and I have experience with two different Twins with Californias (one set of ceramic, one set of Alnicos) that stay clean up to very unreasonable volumes. No experience with the 12" Michigans. I also have a closed 2x12 cab with a pair of older K120s which seem very efficient though I've never compared them back to back with the Californias. Might be misleading because of that cab being sealed... the focus might give the impression of being a little more efficient than it really is. Seems pretty damn loud though.

    If you really want max volume, have you thought about going with a pair of 12Ls for something that can take a constant thrashing or maybe even a pair D130s which are 15" speakers. They handle a bit less power and maybe don't sound quite as good at lower volumes, but sound spectacular at gig levels.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2012
  11. chillerthanmost

    chillerthanmost Member

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    More likely to play a show at a random dance hall, warehouse, large room, doe jo, etc. than an actual 'venue' since we're just a punk rock band. Promoters are usually not doing it for a living so the PA they have is usually just supporting vocals. People could vary from 20 to 200+ people. Who knows. In my storage alone (15x20) the Twin was barely able to keep up in a full band situation. It's just a small amp for the type of shows and music we play (yes, there's still loud, live, independent punk rock.)

    So I now have my twin set as a head and need to fill up my 4x12 to run it through. That's why I'm concerned about efficiency and the speakers I'm looking at. I need the most amount of volume at 4 ohms through four speakers. *I wish EV's were available as 16 ohm speakers. I love the tone and reviews from the California and Michigan but just hear they are quiet.*

    Thanks.*
     
  12. cratz2

    cratz2 Member

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    I hear ya. That just seems pretty insanely loud to me but you know your needs better than I do.
     
  13. chillerthanmost

    chillerthanmost Member

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  14. amphog

    amphog Silver Supporting Member

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    You might find that 2 EV's might be louder than 4 driven with only 80 watts. You are running out of power , not speaker.
     
  15. chillerthanmost

    chillerthanmost Member

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    Wish I would of kept my Emperor 2x12. I'm also debating two EV's vs. four Webers as far as my Twins volume output. I'm not too familiar with the rule of dB x amount of speakers but I do know EV's are much louder speakers.

    Ideally, I'd love to run two SRO's and two 12L's in an X pattern. I wonder how hard it would be to convert my 4x12 into a 2x15 and if two efficient 15's will give me the volume I need. Either that or run my Twin through an 8 ohm cab, though I think that will quiet the amp a little and, obv, risk damage.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2012
  16. amphog

    amphog Silver Supporting Member

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    Another thing to consider the the mid scoop of the twin, a british voiced amp of the same power will cut better. You will need alot more power to be heard without strong mids.
     
  17. cratz2

    cratz2 Member

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    That's a LOT of weight man. I'd hate to think of what a solid 4x12 with 2 SROs and 2 12Ls would weigh... My Avatar with two JBL K120s weighs almost as much as my Twin... and my 12Ls weigh just a bit more than the K120s...

    I'd bet a well-built 4x12 cab with 2 SROs and 2 12Ls would be pushing 140 lbs if not a teeny bit more. And I'm not sure that all 4x12 cabs have a baffle strong enough to take the weight of 4 12Ls/SROs.

    They are awesome speakers, but you'd have to be VERY serious about tone to go that route in my opinion.
     
  18. chillerthanmost

    chillerthanmost Member

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