Two Rock Classic Reverb Questions

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by drneely, Feb 5, 2012.

  1. drneely

    drneely Member

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    I absolutely love my 50w Classic Reverb. Love the way that the notes bloom and all of the harmonic content this amp provides. Love the reverb, very lush. The ONLY thing that I tend to have an issue with is the volume, or lack there of.

    I use the amp with the FET off as a clean platform. Although, the FET on is an amazing cranked fender sound and I do use that as well. The only time that the amp is as loud as I would think a 50w amp would be is when the FET is engaged.

    Another thing that is interesting is that I feel that the amp is actually louder when in the 25w mode. Keep in mind I know nothing of tubes/power and class A vs A/B.

    Anyone else think this amp is a bit lacking in the volume department when run clean? It could just be that I am used to running my WDW rig with the dry cab being powered by a Suhr PT100 and then the wet cabs being powered by 50 watts a piece.

    Anyone have any tube suggestions to try and get more juice out of it? I would love to avoid trying to trade for a 100w version.

    Thanks in advance.

    Edit:

    Here is a picture of the stereo setup I am running it in. Should have a killer pedalboard that is being built by Barry at XTS very soon.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. traviswalk

    traviswalk In the Great State Gold Supporting Member

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    Yep, with the FET off it struggles to stay clean at a drummers volume. I ran a standard 50 watt Classic Reverb for years as my main amp but eventually needed more clean headroom and I then moved to the 100 watters. I have since come back to the Classic Reverb as I love it with the FET on and love the level of break-up and gain it gets at those volumes, but agree that it's hard to keep clean especially with the FET off.
     
  3. mrfender

    mrfender Gold Supporting Member

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    I have the same issue with my 50 watt CR. Amp stays clean till about 2 o clock. It sounds amazing louder then that but I wish it would stay clean. Do u guys think changing tubes or speakers would make a big difference? I just received NOS RCA's that I haven't had a chance to install yet.
     
  4. Laplacian

    Laplacian Member

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    A) unscrew the tube retainers, and try KT-88's or 6550's biased up to around 80ma in total (40mA per tube), the 50w CR has a 100w transformer, this gives more headroom and slightly more volume, but not quite as sweet.

    B) Different speakers: Try some of the eminence designs that have a sensitivity of 103db.

    C) Real solution, Sell your 50w, buy a 100w.

    Great amps. Killer reverb. Best reverb without an EL84 or 6K6, I've ever heard. Feedback switches on the Output section are very useful with various speakers.
     
  5. drneely

    drneely Member

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    Thanks guys. Ideal world I could keep the 50w and buy a 100w version and just have both. I wonder if the 100w sounds the same as the 50w with the FET engaged. I almost hate to make switch as the slightly pushed sound with the FET on in the 50w sure is sweet.
     
  6. mrfender

    mrfender Gold Supporting Member

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    With the Two Rocks, is there a huge difference in volume between the 50 and 100 watts? I know with Plexi's the difference is more in tone as opposed to a huge difference in volume.
     
  7. GregDClark

    GregDClark Member

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    There's only a few decibels difference in actual volume difference. The thing is that the 100w Classic Reverb has much more clean headroom with minimal breakup. Clean tones can be had at much higher volume levels with the 100w.
     
  8. drneely

    drneely Member

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    Anyone have any ideas on why I seem to notice slightly more volume and headroom when in 25w class A mode?
     
  9. Laplacian

    Laplacian Member

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    Cathode bias. Catches more of the front end attack of the note, since the tubes are already in "active' mode. Overall more compressed. I think is's more like 33-35 watts than 25.
     
  10. tonequest

    tonequest Member

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    Wow I used to own a 50 watt classic reverb (wish I still had it), and it was LOUD. I never had any issue playing live and had tons of headroom to go. My drummer was not quiet either. I never got the master past noon.
     
  11. sfarnell

    sfarnell Gold Supporting Member

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    That was my experience with all Two Rock 50 Watt amps before the release of the J-2. Since then, for some reason, Two Rock's have gotten louder. I also think that the character of the cleans have changed just a little. Not worse, or better, just a little different. More glassy IMO.
     
  12. StratStringSlinger

    StratStringSlinger Member

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    To the OP, are you using the bass boost switch? I found, wih some tips from Chad at 2rock, that how you set the switches and dial the amp can also make a big difference in volume.

    Also, I noticed different phase inverter tubes can affect the amount of volume being put out, make sure you have a good strong tube in v5.
     
  13. drneely

    drneely Member

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    Thanks for the info guys. I can say after playing this amp a great deal I do not think I could ever let it go. Just amazing in every way. The amp to the right of it is an SSS style that that Shad at Quinn built and it is absolutely amazing as well. These in stereo is really a beautiful sound.

    I think I will just have to wait until I can afford another Two Rock, maybe get them to build a JM signature for ultimate headroom. Then with the Flexiface on the board I can run it in WDW. Sure would sound nice.

    I think my main issue is that I am used to 200 watts of WDW going through 6 speakers and the PT100 being an absolute fire-breathing monster. I forgot what a 50 watt amp going through a 2x12 was like.
     
  14. kimock

    kimock Member

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    I like the 50 watt amps too.
    The apparent loudness and headroom question has come up before, and being a 50 watt guy I've looked at it pretty closely.
    The closest amp to the TR for comparison purposes would be a Fender Bassman, same OT, so you should have identical power to a Bassman, and you do.
    I've had those two amps side by side on identical speakers and run them both up to the onset of clipping, and before clipping, they're making the same volume. Certainly neither was appreciably louder than the other.

    The diff with the Fender is the high end is harsh enough that when you turn it up it does start to hurt your ears, which is definitely a cue for more apparent loudness, while the TR is just enough smoother that it's easier to listen to loud.
    The other diff relative to the Fender is that the bass on the Fender is out of control enough that nobody really turns those amps up with the bass up: it sounds like ****. You turn the bass down, you get some headroom back.

    The Two Rock conversely has just enough control of the low end that some guys really like playing those amps loud with the bass up, which cripples the headroom.
    The general rule of thumb of turning the bass and gain down as the volume goes up still applies, in this case for clean headroom.

    I'm betting that the majority of cases where players of those amps want more clean headroom or volume are from players who really want more bass.
    It just takes a lot more power to push the low end. In one case going from a 50 watt amp to a 150 watt amp was unsatisfactory for one guy.
    It wasn't a clean headroom or power issue at that point, just a question of how much actual bass are you gonna get out of a Fender guitar at the 12 fret?
    So that's number one, turn down the bass.

    If that's not it, apparent loudness can also be affected by the speaker, if you haven't tried bumping up to an EV or a D130 or something pushy like that, that can make a huge difference.
    In front of the amp, if you're running a relatively hot pickup it's possible that you're clipping the input almost immediately, in which case it doesn't matter how many watts you have, you're already clipping.

    Low output pickups under the circumstance just have more apparent dynamic range because you can hit 'em without clipping the amp, but you can still set it to go over the top if really slam it. It's not like it's more headroom or power, it just feels like it from the tactile perspective.

    Anyway, that's it from my investigations: identical power and headroom to a Fender Bassman, less harsh, with better controlled bass.
    If you need more real power and volume, turn down the bass, get a more efficient speaker or a pair of more efficient speakers.
    More apparent headroom, try to avoid clipping the input immediately either with pedals or with pickups, get some weaker pickups and hit it harder!!

    That's all I got!!
     
  15. Mikeroesoft

    Mikeroesoft Silver Supporting Member

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    I thought a lower gain preamp tube (ie,5751) help that issue as well? I could very easily be wrong though.
     
  16. kimock

    kimock Member

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    I'll bet that'd work for somebody, although so far the 5751's haven't found a permanent home in any of my stuff. I suspect I'm low gain enough at the guitar.
     
  17. TC (Houston)

    TC (Houston) Member

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    I've had my Classic Reverb 50 for a couple of weeks and noticed the exact same thing as the OP. I thought about exchanging it for the 100, and if I were gigging regularly I probably would have done just that. Truthfully, most the time I want a little hair so I'm almost always running the FET, Keeley BD or Katana In front of it, which makes it loud as hell in a hurry (and even more touch sensitive). So I think I will hang onto this one and maybe look to scoop up a used 100W (or JM sig) at some point to see if I prefer it.

    The other interesting thing is that my wife claims this amp is much much louder (listening from the next room and not standing in front of the amp lol) than the fenders I was playing through before. This may be because of the fullness of the 2x12 cab, but I also notice that I'm getting a better balance and none of the borderline harshness I was getting from the Fenders at volume. So maybe it's just my perception that it's much quieter because it does seem to project remarkably well. More finesse than punchiness if that makes sense.

    I was also kind of shocked that this does seem louder in low power mode. The amp is magical in tone but I'm still getting to know how all the settings interact with each other.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2012
  18. TC (Houston)

    TC (Houston) Member

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    Uhhhh, yeah wish I had read Kimock's post before I posted. He said much better what I was trying to express. :)
     
  19. LoganKade

    LoganKade Member

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    this might sound stupid, but why not just mic it with the clean tone you want?
     
  20. glogulus

    glogulus Supporting Member

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    For you classic reverb owners, what cab are you guys running with your amp?
     

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