Update-itis

Discussion in 'Digital & Modeling Gear' started by PhilosoPhrets, Dec 6, 2017.


  1. PhilosoPhrets

    PhilosoPhrets Supporting Member

    Messages:
    449
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2009
    I've noticed a lot of people suffer from what I'll call "Update-itis."

    They buy a piece of gear that they gush about.

    "Oh, this is great! You all need to buy it! It changed my life. It made my kids behave!! It cured my bed-wetting, and even saved my marriage!"

    A week later, they are complaining that the company doesn't update the software often enough.

    Then they turn on that company and claim something like "Company X doesn't listen to the needs of it's customers! Why haven't there been and new software updates in the last 12 hours?! I am selling this piece of garbage on the forum!"

    I don't get it.
     
    pomfret, ericb, Ichil and 3 others like this.
  2. Rod

    Rod Tone is Paramount Silver Supporting Member

    Messages:
    15,268
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2004
    Location:
    Santa Fe NM
    It’s the immediate gratification mentality ......:eek::eek:
    They are most likely, shall we say, the least proficient students of the guitar:confused::confused:
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
    pomfret, C-4 and PhilosoPhrets like this.
  3. pelaomedinaese

    pelaomedinaese Member

    Messages:
    186
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2017
    or maybe it's the inefficient companies and the fast releases thinking more in competence than in the people, that happen not only in guitar gear in video games this things happen like the ps4, ps4pro, ps4etc.
     
  4. stratcat1980

    stratcat1980 Member

    Messages:
    119
    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2017
    Its the nature of the best with technology. Even tesla cars get software updates a few times a month and thats for a car??

    Its the age we live in. So the fact that a unit may sound poor from the get go and sound alot better later after a bunch of updates is pretty cool and is expected from tech in the modeling field. Most high end ones at least but many even lower end. Its ability is already built into the thing-its just if the company wants or has any plans to expound on it and make a unit better.
    Look at helix when released? HR? Even zoom g5n keeps adding stuff monthly as a gimmick but as a pluss.

    Katana amp?? who would have though huh?

    Ge200- well we will see on that one.

    I like that companies build this ability into software in units so we as users dont have to go buy new hardware every year or 3 or 4. Keyboards are the worst on this...but korg with the kronos really upped the anti with the software making older kronos boards the same inside as the kronos2 that is really only a cosmedic change.

    ITS THE FUTURE!

    But i will say that its interesting how tube amps dont usually really have this kind of thing and still maintain to sound killer...sure there are mods i guess but overall its all hardware. That to me is really cool that it can be old school yet great tone from power up.
     
    PhilosoPhrets likes this.
  5. Watt McCo

    Watt McCo Supporting Member

    Messages:
    3,369
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2016
    To be fair, if you bought into a platform expecting updates but months later those updates don't materiLize, you may gush about it when you first get but then turn sour when your expectations aren't met. Of course, that a company promises updates doesn't in any way mean that any of the later updates will be something you're actually interested in, so one should never buy a product on the basis of what they expect the product to become.

    Different people are into modeling for different reasons. Some are into it because it gives them an opportunity to play loads of "gear" they wouldn't otherwise be able to play. There's nothing wrong with that. For those folks, the broadest, most rapidly evolving platform is definitely where they should be.
     
    rsm, Madmax25, KeLynne and 2 others like this.
  6. PhilosoPhrets

    PhilosoPhrets Supporting Member

    Messages:
    449
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2009

    Well said. I understand your point.
     
  7. mattball826

    mattball826 Member

    Messages:
    17,475
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2009
    Most companies will release a product they think is ready for play. Some others tweak as they go.
    At TGP DMS some of us got used to a release it and continuously improve as we go deal. Where that may work for some and many saw those updates as Gifts every few months, many mfg's with retail products would get hammered because that customer not familiar with TGP Modeling acceptance levels would be brutal to the retailer if the product was not play ready from the start.

    Many companies changed things from the original designs say at NAMM to something else after hearing the BS in forum lands from NAMM viewers. This started a trend of "updates" because the consumer now sees that product as not just incomplete, and a work in progress, but more as a system that can be augmented or changed completely at any time via updates.

    Some updates are drastic enough to piss users off because to use those updates requires much reprogramming.

    Today, everyone here seems to EXPECT a smallish company selling a production line product for 1/10 the price to have engineers redesigning the product continuously..... only at TGP lol

    Just give this a day before it turns into a Boss or FAS derailed thread. lol

    Update itis, especially at this price range is just an unrealistic point to have
     
  8. LaXu

    LaXu Member

    Messages:
    1,792
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2004
    Location:
    Finland
    While it has been really cool that for example Fractal Audio has made free Axe-Fx firmware updates for years that not only fixed bugs but improved the sound of the unit in a significant way as well as added new features, I'm happy that it has stabilized a bit. The software is not perfect as there are tons of things in the user interface that could be better (e.g. amp channels should not be separate amp models from an UI point of view). For many keeping up with the latest firmware and making the required changes to their patches was always a chore.

    Yet I really respect Fractal's very transparent and communicative approach to their unit. It's rare to be able to ask the actual guy who wrote the firmware questions on an internet forum. If you compare that for example to Yamaha, who clearly has great products with their THR lineup but there is absolutely no good way to reach out to them and ask if they could implement feature X that could help make their product better. This is similar to many TV and phone manufacturers where most will maybe dump a firmware for your new TV or phone that fixes things but never releases a change log of what is fixed.

    I think it's fine to make a hardware product and say "this is it, this is our final version, it works like we want it to" but many manufacturers never announce this in any way so you get users that are hoping for further updates as they have seen one or two firmware fixes in the past. I think many manufacturers have not updated their communication when it comes to products that are largely software nowadays. While nobody expects them to release a revision of the hardware, they hope that the product they bought could become even better with continued software development.
     
  9. Cool Hand Luke

    Cool Hand Luke Member

    Messages:
    968
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2009
    Just start buying stuff for what it is and stop buying it for what you hope it will become.
     
    ejecta likes this.
  10. FuzzFacetious

    FuzzFacetious Member

    Messages:
    1,455
    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2016
    Location:
    Moma's Bass-ment, Avant-Gardens.
    Companies need to stop selling hardware that has a nice dangling carrot in the software but is essentially incomplete or broken.

    Before the days of WiFi we never had issues with Super Mario World on the Nes, GTA 3 on the ps2 never needed an update, my Nokia 5110 was adequate when I bought it and never needed any bug fixes or new features. Today, companies rush products to market knowing they can update them later. Am I saying that products shouldn’t get new features added later? No. But they shouldn’t be released in a state that will require updates down the line in order to make it work well and to reach its full potential. The public have become consenting beta and product testers without even knowing it.

    There’s a difference between a finished product getting some great new features later and releasing a half baked product that gets fixed and finished at a later date.

    Companies are to blame for this mentality, not consumers, imo. We’ve come to expect updates because we’ve become accustomed to buying stuff that needs them. We’re a bunch of dogs barking at Pavlov.
     
    rsm and JiveTurkey like this.
  11. tibone

    tibone Member

    Messages:
    442
    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Nowdays the consumers are the testers. If something is broken, is just because "it will be fixed on the next update".
     
  12. tjontheroad

    tjontheroad Supporting Member

    Messages:
    4,545
    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2014
    Location:
    New Jersey... YOU GOTTA PROBLEM WITH THAT?!?!
    Updates are an “added value” part of the product that extends it’s useful service life. For the company, it reduces the need to always reengineer hardware. For the consumer, it lessens the effect of obsolescence. If a company doesn’t continue to improve existing products, they’re doing a disservice to themselves and the consumer.
     
  13. MatchFive

    MatchFive Silver Supporting Member

    Messages:
    297
    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2009
    This is one of the reasons I waited 2 years to buy a Helix. The first clips I heard back in 2015 reminded me too much of the Pod 500HD which I found to be too fizzy. It was less fizzy, but there seemed to be a hint of it. I'm not exactly sure what they've done since then, but I have a Helix LT and it doesn't sound that way anymore.
     
  14. Anthony Newcomb

    Anthony Newcomb Supporting Member

    Messages:
    692
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2017
    +1

    I was going to do a long winded philosophical statement but I'll just second this comment instead...well said ;)
     
    tjontheroad likes this.
  15. frthib

    frthib Member

    Messages:
    878
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2012
    Location:
    Québec, Canada
    I wonder if it's a generational thing. Those who had a "real life" amp (marshall, fender) didn't expect any updates.. The concept of updates barely existed; they where called "factory recall". Now with computers, updates are a normal parts of life.. but what if a company do is homework, test to death a product to be fail proof and strike a homerun the first time on the launch... But never update? Is it bad now?

    As far I know, Fractal are the ones to "blame" for giving birth to this exhausting trend (in the ampsim world) of giving freebies addon every now and them. Cliff must have add a creative spurt in that time but what to do when the creative level goes back to nomal? Unhappy customers? It's a risky bussiness move IMO
     
  16. cram

    cram Member

    Messages:
    13,123
    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2006
    Location:
    Southern NH
    This be why cram is not an early adopter of technology or any widget really.. I have things that work. I have things that work well. By the time I get something I've let the market inform me on how good it has been for them. The product/service tend to cost less after a while as well. I don't understand the mentality at all. Well, I do because I'm human and wicket friggin smart man, but too much haste throws johnny into a contract that johnny doesn't like.
    bad johnny...bad BAD johnny!
    :)
     
  17. ericb

    ericb Silver Supporting Member

    Messages:
    7,844
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Location:
    VT
    Great thread! I have mixed feelings about updates. When I buy something I'm buying it for what it is ,not the updates. If updates are FIXES then definitely but updates of sounds , eh.. can be good or bad. I LOVE LOVE Fractal ,but their recent updates have completely ruined my gigging programs that I write with the amp models I loved, and I spent loads of time re-writing them trying to get them back. Didn't get them back to as good as they were previously but now some other amp models are way better. I always have to find the irony in things! ha. .. . Eric
     
    JiveTurkey likes this.
  18. JiveTurkey

    JiveTurkey Supporting Member

    Messages:
    5,488
    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    ALL. OF. THIS.


    Truth be told; I don't need a million amps and modeled effects. I would like a stable platform that is relatively bug-free and a device without FW issues. A bonus (that my platform doesn't have or necessarily need imo) would be a working editor. There's pretty much one top tier device that the OP commented on in another thread on that has buggy fw for going on almost a year and an editor that is just as funky imo. It doesn't need 57 more amps and fx blocks; it needs those items to get sorted out.
     
    Watt McCo likes this.
  19. ejecta

    ejecta Supporting Member

    Messages:
    3,947
    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2005
    I just think some people like to complain.
     
  20. LaXu

    LaXu Member

    Messages:
    1,792
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2004
    Location:
    Finland
    If you look at the amount of different Fender circuits you can see that they just released a product iteration as a new amp and people either liked it or not. I think the first firmware update on a digital amp I saw was for the Yamaha DG amps in late 1990s where they added more effects to the unit. Firmware updates to digital modelers are nothing new.

    The only thing that changed with Fractal was that instead of releasing a new version of the hardware every few years, they stuck to the same hardware and kept updating the software to keep it current. Probably not a bad move at all considering at the time there were apparently no DSP units that were suitable and more powerful than what they had. This is the difference to other vendors too, they went with the most powerful stuff available and built their platform on that whereas other modelers are built with a chip that is capable enough to run the sims and cheap enough to reach the price point of something like the Boss Katana. This usually poses pretty big limitations on the number of effects and the quality of the amp sims. I wonder if Line6 would be able to cram the Helix software into a small unit like the POD and keep it as cheap as those were.
     

Share This Page