Using ambient effects on an amp without fx loop? Please school me....

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by zerocharisma, Jul 2, 2008.

  1. zerocharisma

    zerocharisma Supporting Member

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    So after a while of resisting using pedals and such with my old NMV plexi and being inspired by seeing Mike Landau perform recently, I have decided I want to further customize my own tone with some effects, such as reverb/delay...maybe even some chorus. Some have pointed me towards setting up a dry/wet rig system of some sort but I have no idea where to start, and frankly am intimidated by that. But being this is TGP, I'm looking into it (man, here we go...)

    Right now, alls I gots is my 68 50w plexi, a 4x12 and the desire to use something like a Lexicon LXP-1 to get a really subtle reverb/delay. What do I need at the very least (please tell me I don't need to spend a small fortune) to accomplish this? I want to keep it relatively cheap and simple, please! A sample rig setup or schematic would be a huge help...
     
  2. mangley

    mangley Member

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    Amp into THD Hotplate
    Speaker out from Hotplate to 4x12
    Line out from Hotplate into MPX1
    MPX1 into Carvin DCM-150 (~$200)
    DCM-150 into your favorite 1x12.

    That's one way to do it.
     
  3. riker4208

    riker4208 Member

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    i like that idea mangley
     
  4. buddaman71

    buddaman71 Student of Life Silver Supporting Member

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    Agreed. A Hotplate line level output to the input of any stereo FX device. If you try stereo, you'll never want to go back...

    Outputs of the FX device into either the inputs of a stereo power amp, then run to a stereo cab (or 2 mono cabs...better spread).

    If you want to keep it light and simple, just buy one or two Tech 21 Power Engine power extension cabs. They are cheap, lightweight and work perfectly for any WD or WDW set up. Super easy and the tone is great.
     
  5. Dexter.Sinister

    Dexter.Sinister Still breathing Gold Supporting Member

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    I typically run effects in line in front of amp and it is very good (like an echoplex before Marshall is the Voice Of The Almighty). Much of our music depends on it!

    I have built something like this,too:

    http://www.diyguitarist.com/GuitarAmps/LineOutBox.htm

    ...but I think simple way works very well. If you want line out to feed effects and seperate amp or PA, then hotplate, while good, it overkill. Simple split to line out placed between amp and speaker works. Built my first in no time without enclosure...just split to dropping resitor and stuff with jacks, dangling off speaker tabs. Think I got taht from Aspen Pittman's book.

    DS
     
  6. straticus

    straticus Member

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    If you're just looking for ambient FX with out an FX loop, check out Teaheads clips.

    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=361669&content=music

    I just got done listening to these clips and they sound pretty amazing. It's a Timefactor going straight into the front of a Cornell 18/20 plexi combo.

    After listening to this clips I'm GAS'in for a Timefactor big time. Might be just what you're looking for.
     
  7. paulgroove82

    paulgroove82 Supporting Member

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    I don't mean to sound stupid, but what about just using a Memory Man and an old Ibanez AD9 out front? I refuse to use fx loops and run that infront of almost everything - it's just right if you're looking to add a bit of depth and character...
     
  8. mik777

    mik777 Member

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  9. MBreinin

    MBreinin Supporting Member

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    I had this setup with a Voodoo Witchdoctor.

    Voodoo into weber mini-mass. Line out from mini-mass into wet effects. From wet effects to inexpensive half rack mount Marshall Valvestate power amp. Then, into speaker cab. It was not a stereo rig with a wet/dry setup, just a straight up wet deal. Basically, you turn yoour head into a pre-amp and then just re-amp the signal, post effects, with a power amp. This is the old Van Halen setup and it worked like a charm.

    Mike
     
  10. zerocharisma

    zerocharisma Supporting Member

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    That would be ideal but I neglected to mention that I would like to keep my amp's tone as pristine and untouched as possible, especially if the effects weren't engaged, which would require at least pedals that were true bypass. I've tried a Boss DD-2 or something out front and it didn't quite achieve what I'm hoping for. Thanks for the tip though.

    Others have mentioned a line-out box which might be more the direction I might try going. Suhr makes one but it ain't cheap. The Minimix looks great but it requires an FX loop :nono

    Keep those suggestions coming, please!
     
  11. MBreinin

    MBreinin Supporting Member

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    Get either an attenuator that has a line out, like a HotPlate or a Weber, or get a speaker simulator like a Palmer or the such. You just need a dummy load with a line out.

    Mike
     
  12. Softpaw

    Softpaw Member

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    Here's something to consider from Ho's Electronics....

    http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=405505&page=2

     
  13. zerocharisma

    zerocharisma Supporting Member

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    Vewwy intewwesting...I will have to either contact Jackaroo or Ho and discuss options as I've heard the UA is very good at what it's supposed to do. I'm surprised that current and past units don't have an added FX loop. At any rate, it would be great news to not have to buy a power amp and cabinet. :JAM
     
  14. SgtThump

    SgtThump Member

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    Bingo! You could even use a Crate PowerBlock for power instead of the Carvin DCM150. If you wanted to go stereo, just add another 1x12" cab.
     
  15. pala

    pala Member

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    I do it sometimes using a Palmer 03

    Marshall JMP speaker out --> Palmer Thru --> Cab
    Palmer Line out --> PCM41 --> Power Amp --> Cab

    Pala
     
  16. Gasp100

    Gasp100 Silver Supporting Member

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    Man, that wet / dry rig sure seems like a LOT of extra gear for some added ambiance. :confused:
     
  17. jackaroo

    jackaroo Member

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    I'll be getting my W/D rig up and going this week or next so hang in there if you can. I've tried to front load a Marshall and it just isn't possible. At least if you want clean delays at high levels...they just get mushy. The sound of loading a big plate reverb into a gained out Marshall is also quite unappealing to me.

    The other solution, and it's pretty good is getting the amp on the verge of breakup and then putting a good dirt box in front with the FX after that. The Delays stay good as does verb, the amp is working...just not as much as I'd like. One plus is the versatility of having access to a few levels of gain via some stompboxes. I use a Tim and a Fuzzface- so I have the sound of the amp on the edge, but still clean(ish). The blue channel of the tim- chimy overdriven, but dynamic. The Red channel of the Tim- straight up overdrive/distortion. And lastly the Fuzz, which actually cleans up great with the volume knob. So lots of tones and the FX are staying nice and clean. Problem is the rig is still really loud!

    The Attenuator should set things right- I'll still have the same setup, but I'll run the delays and verb in the loop, and I'll also be able to crank up the second channel of the amp and access it with an A/B footswitch.

    The amp I'm using is kind of like a Marshall/Hiwatt/Selmer...it's called a Kelly...no not Kelley. Anyway it's pretty great. I'm really anxious!




    Cheers,

    JD
     
  18. rockon1

    rockon1 Member

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    Its funny how we view things. I refuse to buy amps without FX loops! lol! Cant get a decent sounding delay with the amount of OD I use. Consequently I foolishly passed on a vertical input JCM 800 in nice shape for 499$ a couple of years ago!:jo Bob
     
  19. Belmont

    Belmont Member

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    here's how I do it.I use my superlead as the main sound,run that to a Ho attenuator,attenuator out to half of a stereo 4x12 for my dry tone.the line out of the attenuator to my line level effects and parametric EQ,then off to the effects return (power amp input) of a JCM900 head,900 into the other half of the 4x12.I run the effects into a loop pedal so I can still have a dry tone that's using the whole 4x12 cab.this setup works extremely well,the JCM900 works really well as a power amp,with the parametric EQ I can match the re-amped tone of the superlead coming out of the 900,with the actual superlead tone,so that their almost identical.I could do the same thing with a ss power amp but the JCM900 can act as a back-up amp so I use it.this is a complicated way to do it but the results are worth it,and you only have to carry one extra head,and an attenuator.
     
  20. zerocharisma

    zerocharisma Supporting Member

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    Thanks, Jack! Sounds like you're well on your way once you get the attenuator from Ho. I'm surprised that an FX loop has to be a custom option--I'm looking to order the same as yours if it does what you hope it should. By the way, I don't own a single dirt box for my Marshall, but I'm opening up to that option as well. Anyway, keep us all posted as I'm looking forward to a review!

    Zer0
     

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