VHT or Bogner ??

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by paulmapp8306, Apr 4, 2008.

  1. paulmapp8306

    paulmapp8306 Member

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    I have a VHT 50ST head (EL34s) and am looking an either changin it - or possibly adding to it (If I can fund a new amp without selling mine).

    I have tried plently of stuff over the last weeks - Deizel, Custom Audio, Diamond, H&K, ENGL, VHT, Bogner etc.

    It looks like a straight fight between VHTs CLX or Sig X and Bogners Ecstacy 101b or Classic.

    Im a little dubious on the VHTs as the reason for selling mine is a mid freq on the gain channel I dont like - and I cant dial it out. I could also do with a it more gain than the ST offers me. I do like the clean channel though.

    As for the Bogners - I dont like the Marshal sound much - and the Bogners are pretty close by all accounts. When I tried the Bogners the 101b seemed too compressed and a little muddy to me - especially through a Bogner cab - it was better through a VHT 4x12. The Classic I though was better - but much more expensive and would mean I couldnt keep my 50ST. Having said that teh shop would not let me turn the amps up past around 1-2 as it was Saturday and a little full.

    I havent tried a Sig X as there not in England yet.

    So - Who would take what? Will the Bogners sound open up when wound up? How close is it to a Marshal sound at volume (not the Plexi mode as that will obviously be close)? How do the clean channels compare at volume?

    As for what I play - 60 Rock N Roll, through Classic Rock (Zep, Lizzy, etc). A lot of blues and Pink Floydy stuff. 80s Rock (Aerosmith, Jovi etc) and some modern guitar stuff (Green Day type stuff), some more mellow modern stuff (think Maroon 5). Basically function/covers band stuff. Nothing really heavy. Most importantly I need the sounds from the floor/guitar volume - no twiddling of amp settings mid set.

    So thoughts and recomendations please.
     
  2. stratzrus

    stratzrus Philadelphia Jazz, Funk, and R&B Supporting Member

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    It's going to be hard to judge if you can't turn up past 2...I guess you'll have to go back on a weekday.

    The Sig:X might meet your needs, but may still have the VHT midrange characteristic you don't like. Have you played a Deliverance? I hear they are similar, but the Sig:X is a little smoother and has more flexibility.
     
  3. MrJacko03

    MrJacko03 Member

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    Well...they don't sound the same, so which one do YOU like? ;)

    Just don't make your choice here on the board......make IRL
     
  4. paulmapp8306

    paulmapp8306 Member

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    Well - a Weekday (special arranged) visit will take place. I have to travell some 200 miles and an expensie overnight ferry to get to the only Bogner and VHT dealer in the UK though.

    the trial I did was because I was in the vacinity with work for a weekend so I had no choice.

    The Marshall tone I dont like is the upper freqs. They seem very bright and razor like - almost harsh for me. The VHT mid I dont like is a honkey kinda low/mid.

    As for Guitars I have 2 PRS's. 1 custom 22 and 1 CE bolt on maple top. I do use some dirt sometimes too. I have a Catalinbread SCP, a Subdecay Liquid Sunshine and a Keeley modded Blues Driver.

    Unfortunately I know of no-one in the UK that imports/stocks Splawn so I dont think that is a option.

    I did try a deliverance and I liked it. Then I tried the CLX an though I liked it more. Went back to the D60 and changed my mind again. Then I tried the 101b and kinda liked it but wasnt sure if it was better than the D60 tone. Obviously the D60 is single channel so I only tried it to get a feel for what the Sig X would be like. I tried the XTC Classic last - and it seemed to hit the spot instantly - although as stated it was only on around 2. This was all through the VHT 4x12 cab. I then plugged into a 2x12 Bogner cab - and all the nice openess I liked on the classic dissapeared and It seemed to compress again, so I dont kow if I like the head or just the cab!!!

    They didnt have a 4x12 Bogner cab in stock, and didnt want to plug in a VHT 2x12 as they thought Id had enought time (a couple of hours by then) and as stated they were busy "shifting gear" quote as it was a saturday. If they wernt the only suppliers of VHT and Bogner I wouldnt go back because of that attitude - but they are - so I will. I just felt yeh - a few kids gettind £30-£40 pedals, strings and maybe a cheap Spider. I was talking of around £3400 on head and cab. I was also looking at £2600 for a Tyler too. Think of the long term!!!

    AHHHHHHHHHHH
     
  5. MrJacko03

    MrJacko03 Member

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    Well.....if your favorite was Bogner classic into VHT 4x12.....that's what you want :D
     
  6. MikeyG

    MikeyG Supporting Member

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    VHTs are a bit dry and tight, Bogner is loose and juicy .... they are quite different. The newer Bogners seem more bright than before, and many many people have agreed when I stated that.

    The Deliverance, though, was my favorite VHT. A little more juicy (still not like the XTC) and had a great feel.

    I think overall I prefer the VHT for rhythm, the Bogner for leads.

    I'm dying to try the Sig:X ...
     
  7. ejecta

    ejecta Supporting Member

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    I recently had a 2007 XTC that was really cool. Brighter than the old ones. Couldnt go wrong that way but a bit too compressed for me.

    But I LOVE the Sig:X! For me its the channel switcher Ive been looking for after going through more amps than I care to count. Its tight but not dry. Can get classic and modern for you. Very very good clean. Not overly compressed and has a very cool Marshall vibe for a VHT.

    Seriously this amp isnt going to be for everyone but I think it's going to surprise alot guys on how good this amp is.
     
  8. matte

    matte Senior Member

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    for me? both. been that way for me since each of those companies dropped their first public offerings (thanks and praise due to greg b!).
     
  9. mhenson42

    mhenson42 Supporting Member

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    I have the sig x. It's a great amp. It's like a deliverance with also a clean and high gain channel. I sold my splawn nitro after I got it. Now I have GAS for an XTC or maybe another Uber.
     
  10. paulmapp8306

    paulmapp8306 Member

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    AHHHHH

    I,ve just checked out some XTC and Sig X clips.

    The Sig X seems to have the better clean, and high gain rhythm sounds, the XTC the better mid gain and leads tones.

    I cant afford both !!!!!
     
  11. Tubevalvemaniac

    Tubevalvemaniac Member

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    Had both.
    Still have Bogner.

    ENGL SE offers more complete sound gamma with inredible cleans and distortion to die for. IMO nicer sound overall than VHT.
    Bogner is great in its own character.
     
  12. ejecta

    ejecta Supporting Member

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    The main main factors that would come into play between the two IMHO is this: if you like a bit more compressed amp with that ever present Bogner low mids then go with the XTC. If you like something a bit more flexiable that can be dialed alot of different ways but isnt as compressed and is way more touch sensitive and really reacts well to guitar volume then go VHT.
     
  13. MrJacko03

    MrJacko03 Member

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    Well.........if you are gonna decide from clips, then good luck :D. They almost never sound the same IRL.

    I have not tried the VHT but I tried another VHT (don't even remember which) and it is a bit harder to play......as in......it is very tight and dry and it will reveal everything you do incl. mistakes. In other words, it not forgiving.
     
  14. paulmapp8306

    paulmapp8306 Member

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    Im not just going from clips. I have tried the Bogner but the Sig X is not available in the UK yet - should be soon though.

    I know the ULs and CL/CLX to some extent are dry, but my 50ST isnt at all - neither was my 45 2x10 combo. From what I here neither is the Sig X. It does seem a little high gain for my needs and perhaps harsher than the bogner from the clips.

    That said, the demos are not going to be set up to my tastes anyway so its only a guide.
     
  15. paulmapp8306

    paulmapp8306 Member

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    I had tried one of those. I likes the cleans a lot, and also he crunch/gain from channels 1 with boost - and 2. I didnt like the gain channels at all. Far too much gain on both - id expect that on ch4, but not on 3. It also seemed too bass heavey with not enough mids for my liking on those channels.

    Also I dont like to share EQ, and didnt like that aspect of the amp.
     
  16. paulmapp8306

    paulmapp8306 Member

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    Doh - things just got harder.

    I've been reading the thread on the Fractal Axe FX. If this thing really is that good, I could ditch my Pod X3 Live - for around £250, my TC G- Major for around £200 and my Korg Rack Tuner for approx £50. That would leave me needing £500 to get the Axe FX.

    As my budget is around £2500, I could do this, and try the Axe FX. If its not as good as the review I'd still have a new FX processor and around £1800-£2000 for a new amp WITHOUT SELLING THE 50ST. As the Sig X is £1500 its very do-able.

    I could still get the Bogner (either 101b at £2300 or classic at £2600) by selling my 50ST which should fetch around £700-£800 giving me £2500-£2800.

    If the Axe FX really is that good, I could either keep my ST rig as a spare, or if I got the need for "tube" and still have £1000 for other stuff - (another used guitar perhaps) OR sell the VHT ST rig which would give me enough to add an Anderson or Tyler to my 2 PRS's.

    The only thing I couldnt do would be I couldnt get a Bongner XTC and keep my 50ST as a spare if I didnt like the Axe FXs amp stuff.

    Oh Bugger !!!
     
  17. Softpaw

    Softpaw Member

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  18. paulmapp8306

    paulmapp8306 Member

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    Nice set up - Love the Shur!!

    I have heard of Elmwood Amps - but as far as I know there to order only from teh Europ Rep (In Greece). I know of someone who has done this and was impressed.

    I also liked teh Shiva Clean channel. The Drive was good for leads, but not sure about tight rhythm.

    Although I dont play that style much, I do like to thrash it out on accasion. It is one of the sounds lacking from the VHT 50ST I have - hence why I'm looking for a new amp.
     
  19. MrJacko03

    MrJacko03 Member

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    Elmwood can be ordered from Elmwood direct if your country is not represented......

    Flyangus from here and other forums has made som great clips with the Elmwoods
     
  20. stratzrus

    stratzrus Philadelphia Jazz, Funk, and R&B Supporting Member

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    This is an option well worth considering.

    I plan to use my Axe FX with the Sig:X. You can use it just in the effects loop for delay and modulation or use the four cable method to, in effect, place the preamp of your tube amp as a block in the Axe Fx's signal chain and put Axe FX pedals in front of your tube amp, then use the tube amp preamp, then use Axe FX delay, and finally use your tube amp's power amp to go into the speakers. This is not to mention compression and EQ options.

    The Axe Fx is incredibly flexible.
     

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