vibrolux/ copperheads- hey 2x6L6!

[div]

A while back I asked about Eminence replacement speakers for a '79 vibrolux & Mr. 2x6L6 linked to a nice helpful chart he made up.

I went with copperheads & wanted to just share my initial experience.

First of all, the original oxford speakers sounded surpisingly great at low volume, but did break up early & lacked volume.

When I first put the copperheads in, I spent a bunch of time comparing the amp to my '71 deluxe Reverb w/ Reverend alltone speaker. The DR had more sparkle, the vibrolux now sounded a little midrangey with less sparkle but had a fuller sound & did sound pretty good.

Played on it a little while at home loud as I could, and played a gig with it, sounded nice & strong at the gig. Then I compared it to the DR again and folks, speaker break in is no myth. A lot of the boxy midrangeyness was gone. The DR still has a little bit more sparkle & a little less midrange (& less bass) but they now sound very similar.

I should say I play telecaster in a rockabilly/ country band & play clean, getting just a bit of OD from the amp sometimes. The copperheads get me my twangy fendery tele sound & the they definitely gave the amp more volume. There is more midrange than a typical vintage speaker in an old fender, but it doesn't sound cardboardy or celestion-y (sorry, celestion guys). And they don't fart out on the low E. The original oxfords I think were still best at bedroom levels, but to gig with the copperheads make the amp more useable.

And they were $46 each. Webers I'm sure are more vintage correct but they're almost double the price.

 

[2x6L6]

Thanks for the review, Div! I missed the post when you put it up last month...
2x

 

[RussB]

Great post!

I got a '79 Vibrolux myself, which also had some bad-sounding CTS ceramics. I have blackfaced the VR, which changes it's character considerably (less bright, more crunch/break-up)

I went with the Eminence Ramrods in mine, they are wonderful...big bass, punchy mids, and a nice upper-mid sizzle. LOUD!

 

[jimfog]

I'm with you......

I put a Copperhead and a Ragin Cajin in a 2x10/2x6L6 Bandmaster Reverb "combo" and it really came to life.

+1 on the speaker breakup.......I was dubious when these were 1st installed, and after a gig or two they were started to give it up.

Good stuff!

-jim

 

[Roe]

would a coppehead and a ragin cajin make a good combo?

 

[Texsunburst59]

My 69' has been in a few dog fights in it's life, and a new pair of copperheads just might be the ticket to make it feel good about its appearance, and sound good at the same time.

 

[div]

They keep getting better- I used to think speaker break in was one a them audiophile tone snob myths but I was wrong, as usual.

Got a gig in a week where the VR's gonna be the house amp for 4 bands- That oughta complete the break in, huh.

 

[scottcw]

+1 on the speaker breakup.......I was dubious when these were 1st installed, and after a gig or two they were started to give it up.

What about the speaker breakup made you dubious that has since changed?

I tried one of these in an amp and loved the clean tones, but hated the overdrive tones. Maybe it needs more break in?

 

[jimfog]

What about the speaker breakup made you dubious that has since changed?

I tried one of these in an amp and loved the clean tones, but hated the overdrive tones. Maybe it needs more break in?

I'm sorry that's what I meant...break -IN not UP. Just saying it opens up and gets less congested as it breaks-in. Less shrill, more round....

-jim

 

[RussB]

Pic of my '79

 

[2x6L6]

OK, since we're on the pix thing... and who doesn't love amp, porn... here's mine - 1975!

Interesting side note - these (original) blue-label AlNiCo speakers are Eminence manufacture....

And the guts, with BF mods, minor tone stack mod (from the Funk book) and my favorite combination of Orange Drop and Mallory 150 caps.

Until seeing Texsun's I used to think mine showed its age....

One more thing - Div, do you use any overdrive with your Copperheads? I have heard others post the same thing scottcw notes about the Copperheads - beautiful clean sounds but not a great OD tone. I really want to regain a pristine clean tone out of my Vibrolux, but have to have a good nasty OD tone as well. My old (original) Emi's are just beat - really soft and gassy in the low end... which is only accentuated by the "blackface" mods.

 

[div]

2x: Well, no, I don't really play with OD much nowadays. I've hooked up an OD pedal with the amp a couple times around the house but I don't think I've done it "at volume"- with the band I play in there's only a couple songs I occasionally use OD on. I recall reading in your chart that people complained about "raspy" overdrive but to me that would probaqbly be a plus- I like an aggressive sound with OD, rather than "smooth" (Link Ray: good, Carlos Santana: not so much IMO, IMO, etc., etc.).

I done played the amp where I'm getting some OD from the amp itself and it sounds awesome far as I'm concerned but this is just a light amount of OD with a tele. for what its worth, the DR with reverend speaker seems raspy-er, if anything.

 

[RussB]

I dig pictures

The Redcoats are coming!
You can see the big Allen Amplification output tranny in there, too!

The circuit has been "Blackfaced" and sounds so much better...nice break-up and crunch

 

[Texsunburst59]

I just got back from my Amp guru's house. He called me up to tell me he'd gotten in the set of Copperheads that we were going to try out in my 69' Vibro. I went over and I took my 76' Vibrolux over also to do a side by side tone comparison. The 76' has a set of Fender/Pyle speakers in it. We stuck the set of copperheads in the 69' and it sounded thin an compressed next to the 76' which sounded alot warmer. He happened to have an original set of 64' original CTS speakers. We stuck those in the 69' and that's the tone I was looking for. It was warm and very balanced between the bass,mids,and highs. Now, in comparison the 76' sounded woofy and very bottom heavy. It didn't have the mid presence or top end of the CTS speakers. My amp guy made me a good deal on the set,but said a vintage pair in great shape will run about $100 each. Well, now I'm on the lookout for a vintage set for my 76'.

 

[Boogs]

They keep getting better- I used to think speaker break in was one a them audiophile tone snob myths but I was wrong, as usual.

If they are like my Emi's, they'll continue to get better and better over time. I think Emi's must start off being particularly stiff, because I keep hearing Celestion guys slagging them off after two hours of use... they are often not even close tho their destination sound yet.

My Cannabis Rex changed the most dramatically and over the longest time (we're talkiong months and months of use), my first Wizard took the next longest, while my second Wizard, Legend 151 and Stonehenge took only a few hours, and sounded ballpark close right away. I'm still not sure about the Blue Tick Hound...it's an unusual sound.

 

[TheAmpNerd]

I just got back from my Amp guru's house. He called me up to tell me he'd gotten in the set of Copperheads that we were going to try out in my 69' Vibro. I went over and I took my 76' Vibrolux over also to do a side by side tone comparison. The 76' has a set of Fender/Pyle speakers in it. We stuck the set of copperheads in the 69' and it sounded thin an compressed next to the 76' which sounded alot warmer. He happened to have an original set of 64' original CTS speakers. We stuck those in the 69' and that's the tone I was looking for. It was warm and very balanced between the bass,mids,and highs. Now, in comparison the 76' sounded woofy and very bottom heavy. It didn't have the mid presence or top end of the CTS speakers. My amp guy made me a good deal on the set,but said a vintage pair in great shape will run about $100 each. Well, now I'm on the lookout for a vintage set for my 76'.

You might want to try an "aged and broken in" set of Mod 50s in that.

The pickiest bass player I know thinks the vibrolux reverb amp these
speakers are in sounds like a Million Bucks. He gets lots of compliments
on his tone as well. He was afraid of using these speakers until he tryed
them in the amp.

He is a professional who gigs and jam hosts about 4 nights a week.
Ask him what he thinks about the resurrected vibrolux amp or the speakers:
jdlband@yahoo.com

PM me if you'd like a set aged and broken in.

 

[div]

Tex- I sort of had the same reaction as you when I first heard the copperheads. I sat there with the VR and the DR side by side, plugging into one, then the other, then back again, and the VR with the new speakers just sounded lacking- they weren't as "open", if you know what I mean, and just kind of more sterile & cardboardy. Hard to describe but I was a little disapointed.

After a few hours at volume on the new speakers I did the same comparison thing (& I've done it several times now) and to my surprise this jazz about speaker break in really is true, at least with the copperheads. I'm glad I had the DR to sit there & do comparisons with cause otherwise I'd be wondering if the "break in" was just in my head (we can do that to justify a purchase to ourselves, can't we?).

The before & after difference was so noticeable, it makes me wonder why they don't do something to break in the speakers a little bit before they're shipped.

 

[2x6L6]

Great post!

I got a '79 Vibrolux myself, which also had some bad-sounding CTS ceramics. I have blackfaced the VR, which changes it's character considerably (less bright, more crunch/break-up)

I went with the Eminence Ramrods in mine, they are wonderful...big bass, punchy mids, and a nice upper-mid sizzle. LOUD!

So, RussB - does it still sound like a Fender? Especially, does it get a nice Fendery clean sound? I and some others who play Fender amps hear the Vibrolux circuit/cab/etc as tending to be a breakup, looser amp than others (Deluxe, etc) and so I think that obviously affects speaker choice. I can imagine that a Ramrod might handle that situation pretty well, if it can still deliver a decent clean tone. I am super-tempted to try 1 Ramrod and 1 Copperhead as a weird balancing act - get the guts of the Ramrod and the sparkle of the Copperhead...??? Either that or just toss in a pair of Ragin Cajuns.... or a pair of Ramrods...tough call!

texsunburst - I hafta wonder if the Copperheads you tried in your '69 would have ended up in the neighborhood of acceptability after break-in...??? If the CTS's spoke to me, though, I woulda bought them on the spot as well.

BTW, I am continuing to more or less update my ridiculously confusing table on Eminence 10" speakers here: http://www.alaska.net/~jimbeck/guitars/Eminence_Speaker_Comparisons_and_Info_TGP_10_inch.htm

 

[RussB]

2X6L6,

The Ramrods definitely have that celestion-crunch thing going on...My Vibrolux is a crunchy bastid, regardless of what speakers I'm using. It has a lot to do with the lower (blackface) pre-amp tube voltages than anything else. I have run the amp through a pair of Weber (ceramic) Michigans, and EVM12L, V30's...it has an early break-up regardless.

Fendery? too vague. It has the blackface VR vibe. Crunches up quick with Humbuckers

 

[Seegs]

The Copperheads are very articulate and tend to have a very tight but not massive bottom end and are voiced in the upper-mids...

clean this is an advantage as tends to be more articulate but when they are cranked or pushed with pedals they can get a bit sizzly in the beginning...not quite fizzy but almost...I originally had Weber ceramics in this amp and that was fizzy and stayed that way...couldn't get rid of it...

after some time the CH's sizzle calms down and gets a lot smoother but the sizzle is exactly what helps you cut and sit in the mix on stage...it has never bothered me and has actually been an advantage on stage but I have noticed it when doing shootouts and comparisons at home...

I have a Copperhead paired with a Cannabis Rex in my Fargen Dual Classic and I went back and forth between the Ragin Cajun/CR and CH/CR combo...when I installed the CH with the CR after first trying the RC/CR combo it was like taking a blanket off my amp...if you play cranked and with a lot of gain and want massive bottom end and creamy smooth overdrive then the RC would be the better choice...if you play mostly clean and overdriven once in awhile I like the CH...

and the other option...like somebody else mentioned would be a CH/RC combo...that might just be the best of both worlds...

Chow,
Seegs